Softball--pitching circle

[tcannizzo]

Last weekend, in a tournament that was made of teams going to 12A Nationals, I had at least 6 different pitchers who were not pausing at all after bringing their hands together.

Most of them did a nice job in making the adjustment after the first violation.

This one P from a TN team, did not. 6 IP's in a row.

Coach uses all the standard excuses, no one has ever called it before, that is the way she was taught to pitch, blah, blah, blah.

Also, this same team's F3 committed OBS on multiple occasions on pick off attempts.

At one point, while it was still relatively civil, I asked the coach to give me a list of the rules he would like us to ignore.

It did not end well, we had an ejection post-game.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Last weekend, in a tournament that was made of teams going to 12A Nationals, I had at least 6 different pitchers who were not pausing at all after bringing their hands together.

Most of them did a nice job in making the adjustment after the first violation.

You have to wonder how someone could make this a hard adjustment. All the pitcher has to do is count to "one" when the hands come together and then proceed.

This one P from a TN team, did not. 6 IP's in a row.

Coach uses all the standard excuses, no one has ever called it before, that is the way she was taught to pitch, blah, blah, blah.

Also, this same team's F3 committed OBS on multiple occasions on pick off attempts.

At one point, while it was still relatively civil, I asked the coach to give me a list of the rules he would like us to ignore.

It did not end well, we had an ejection post-game.

Tony, while it is true you cannot fix stupid, it is just outright mean when you bait them.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Tony, while it is true you cannot fix stupid, it is just outright mean when to bait them.

That is true, Mike.
But sometimes stupid folks make it impossible not to.
When I run into them, I usually have them immediately go see the tournament uic - especially when they say that's what they want to do.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Also, this same team's F3 committed OBS on multiple occasions on pick off attempts.

You already said 12&U, but oh, Nationals level.

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Last weekend, in a tournament that was made of teams going to 12A Nationals, I had at least 6 different pitchers who were not pausing at all after bringing their hands together.
...

Not ASA? Isn't it the ASA interpretation that the hands must touch to satisfy the 1-10 seconds, i.e., we're not to nitpick less than one second?

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob

Not ASA? Isn't it the ASA interpretation that the hands must touch to satisfy the 1-10 seconds, i.e., we're not to nitpick less than one second?

In each case, P would take the PP with both hands separated, then begin the windup where the hands might touch for an instant during the windup.

It is my ASA understanding that P must bring both hands together, pause, then when the hands separate the pitch then begins.

Am I misinformed?

[Andy]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

In each case, P would take the PP with both hands separated, then begin the windup where the hands might touch for an instant during the windup.

It is my ASA understanding that P must bring both hands together, pause, then when the hands separate the pitch then begins.

Am I misinformed?

The pause must take place after the pitcher has assumed the pitching position on the pitchers plate and while the hands are still separated. This is to allow the batter to know that the pitcher is about to pitch and to prevent the immediate step onto the PP and moving directly into the delivery.

The rule does state that the hands must come together for between one and ten seconds as Manny stated, but the interpretation has always been that as long as the hands touch, even if it is during the windup, the requirement is met.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Andy

The rule does state that the hands must come together for between one and ten seconds as Manny stated, but the interpretation has always been that as long as the hands touch, even if it is during the windup, the requirement is met.

Not that I don't believe you, but if that's the accepted interpretation, then as I mentioned before, the rule and rule supplement in the book needs to be changed.

I don't remember that interpretation in any clinics I've attended. Of course, my memory is following the same route as the hair on top of my head...

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Manny A

if that's the accepted interpretation, then as I mentioned before, the rule and rule supplement in the book needs to be changed.

I don't remember that interpretation in any clinics I've attended. ...

Don't know about clinics as such, but generally accepted practice. Everything can't be in the book, or we would call it Rulepaedia.

Besides, with rounding, a second is 0.5000000001 second and who can tell that from 0.0000000001 second.

[Little Jimmy]

Speaking Fed, 6-1-1-c "...the pitcher shall bring the hands together in front of the body for not less than one second and not more than 10 seconds before releasing the ball. The hands may motionless or moving.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

The rule does state that the hands must come together for between one and ten seconds as Manny stated, but the interpretation has always been that as long as the hands touch, even if it is during the windup, the requirement is met.

Originally Posted by Manny A

Not that I don't believe you, but if that's the accepted interpretation, then as I mentioned before, the rule and rule supplement in the book needs to be changed.

I don't remember that interpretation in any clinics I've attended. Of course, my memory is following the same route as the hair on top of my head...

What Andy is stated is true, has been for more than twenty years, just a simple touch. However, it should be noted that there is no requirement for a stop or pause with the hands together.

I would assume the interpretation to a touch being considered one second was because what you think is one second, what Andy thinks is one second and what I think is one second, may be three different things and this would probably cause more havoc than it is worth and would not be helpful for the game or its flow.

But let's look @ 6.1.E and RS #40.c. They do not read the same.

The rule states that the pitcher must bring the hands together not less than one second or more than ten seconds before releasing the ball.

That could be read that the pitcher has to bring her hands together not less than one second prior to releasing the ball, but must release within ten seconds after bringing them together.

The RS does state that the hands must be kept together for at least one second, but not more than ten.

And if you think about it, is there any good purpose of having a minimum time? The pitcher has already paused on the PP with the hands separated to alert the batter that the pitch will be coming shortly. Well, there isn't until someone catches on that there is no requirement to come together immediately out of the pause.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

...I had at least 6 different pitchers who were not pausing at all after bringing their hands together....It is my ASA understanding that P must bring both hands together, pause, then when the hands separate the pitch then begins.

Am I misinformed?

Yes, you are misinformed. There are really two separate issues being discussed here. First is the pause, second is the minimum time the hands are together. They are not related, except that both are part of the pitching rule.

The only pause either ASA or NFHS requires is with the hands separated while taking, or pretending to take, the signals from the catcher. The purpose of the pause is to prevent a quick pitch.

The touch (bringing the hands together) followed by separating the hands does start the pitch in ASA, but not NFHS. In NFHS, the pitch is started with the motion of the windup (which may be before the hands actually separate).

The hands may be in motion while together; no pause is necessary here. IOW, this is part of the wind-up.

In ASA, the touch-and-go has been an accepted interpretation of the 1 second minimum for years, although this interpretation has never been put in writing AFAIK.

I don't do international rules, but IIRC previous discussions on this board, the international rules make it clear that touch-and-go is not accepted by making the timing 2 to 10 seconds rather than 1 to 10.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

It is my ASA understanding that P must bring both hands together, pause, then when the hands separate the pitch then begins.

The pause is required before the hands are joined, while simulating "taking a signal".

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob

Isn't it the ASA interpretation that the hands must touch to satisfy the 1-10 seconds, i.e., we're not to nitpick less than one second?

I've never heard that before.

RS#40C states in part, "After taking or simulating taking the signal, bringing the hands together and keeping them together a minimum of one second and not more than 10 seconds..."

It doesn't sound like an instantaneous tap of the hands together would meet the requirement. If it does, then the RS needs to be updated.