Softball--pitching circle

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

We have all seen it. They do something stupid, or is a clear violation and it is the official's fault.

Exactly. In my example of the girl who walked off 2B retreating to 1B because she thought it had been a foul ball.. she is certainly not gaining an advantage but it is an obvious violation of the rule. So am I the bad guy for making the call? Should I ignore this violation because she was going back not forward? Should I cut her some slack becuase she is a young player and doesn't know better?

[xtremeump]

IRISH +1 (Wow) very nice.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

Exactly. In my example of the girl who walked off 2B retreating to 1B because she thought it had been a foul ball.. she is certainly not gaining an advantage but it is an obvious violation of the rule. So am I the bad guy for making the call? Should I ignore this violation because she was going back not forward? Should I cut her some slack becuase she is a young player and doesn't know better?

My opinion.

Low level and very young rec ball (10U, maybe 12U); ok. Anything above that, make the call.

We (well most of us, I assume) have had children. It doesn't matter how many times you tell them something, until there is a consequence, you are likely wasting your breath.

Let them learn; only the consequence will sink in and make it a lesson.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

My opinion.

Low level and very young rec ball (10U, maybe 12U); ok. Anything above that, make the call.

We (well most of us, I assume) have had children. It doesn't matter how many times you tell them something, until there is a consequence, you are likely wasting your breath.

Let them learn; only the consequence will sink in and make it a lesson.

It is funny that when an umpire does make the obvious, but not popular call it is the "let the kids play" or "way to make yourself part of the game", etc. But don't call the IP and how are the girls going to learn? Then it is the umpire's fault for not calling it until you do on their pitcher. Then it is back to the same old whine.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

Exactly. In my example of the girl who walked off 2B retreating to 1B because she thought it had been a foul ball.. she is certainly not gaining an advantage but it is an obvious violation of the rule. So am I the bad guy for making the call? Should I ignore this violation because she was going back not forward? Should I cut her some slack becuase she is a young player and doesn't know better?

No, you make the call because once you don't, people will take that as the way it is and when the next guy does make the proper call, s/he takes the heat for you being a nice guy.

IMO, it is the umpire's job to enforce the rules and the coaches' job to teach the players the game. If both are competent in their respective responsibilities, there shouldn't be a problem.

If you don't want the umpires to do the job for which they are being paid, don't hire umpires. Asking the umpire to do otherwise is not fair to the umpire or the teams. Its like giving a soldier a gun to defend someone/thing, but no ammunition or a firefighter a hose to extinguish a forest fire, but no water.

[tcannizzo]

Last weekend, in a tournament that was made of teams going to 12A Nationals, I had at least 6 different pitchers who were not pausing at all after bringing their hands together.

Most of them did a nice job in making the adjustment after the first violation.

This one P from a TN team, did not. 6 IP's in a row.

Coach uses all the standard excuses, no one has ever called it before, that is the way she was taught to pitch, blah, blah, blah.

Also, this same team's F3 committed OBS on multiple occasions on pick off attempts.

At one point, while it was still relatively civil, I asked the coach to give me a list of the rules he would like us to ignore.

It did not end well, we had an ejection post-game.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Last weekend, in a tournament that was made of teams going to 12A Nationals, I had at least 6 different pitchers who were not pausing at all after bringing their hands together.

Most of them did a nice job in making the adjustment after the first violation.

You have to wonder how someone could make this a hard adjustment. All the pitcher has to do is count to "one" when the hands come together and then proceed.

This one P from a TN team, did not. 6 IP's in a row.

Coach uses all the standard excuses, no one has ever called it before, that is the way she was taught to pitch, blah, blah, blah.

Also, this same team's F3 committed OBS on multiple occasions on pick off attempts.

At one point, while it was still relatively civil, I asked the coach to give me a list of the rules he would like us to ignore.

It did not end well, we had an ejection post-game.

Tony, while it is true you cannot fix stupid, it is just outright mean when you bait them.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Tony, while it is true you cannot fix stupid, it is just outright mean when to bait them.

That is true, Mike.
But sometimes stupid folks make it impossible not to.
When I run into them, I usually have them immediately go see the tournament uic - especially when they say that's what they want to do.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Also, this same team's F3 committed OBS on multiple occasions on pick off attempts.

You already said 12&U, but oh, Nationals level.

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Last weekend, in a tournament that was made of teams going to 12A Nationals, I had at least 6 different pitchers who were not pausing at all after bringing their hands together.
...

Not ASA? Isn't it the ASA interpretation that the hands must touch to satisfy the 1-10 seconds, i.e., we're not to nitpick less than one second?

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob

Not ASA? Isn't it the ASA interpretation that the hands must touch to satisfy the 1-10 seconds, i.e., we're not to nitpick less than one second?

In each case, P would take the PP with both hands separated, then begin the windup where the hands might touch for an instant during the windup.

It is my ASA understanding that P must bring both hands together, pause, then when the hands separate the pitch then begins.

Am I misinformed?

[Andy]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

In each case, P would take the PP with both hands separated, then begin the windup where the hands might touch for an instant during the windup.

It is my ASA understanding that P must bring both hands together, pause, then when the hands separate the pitch then begins.

Am I misinformed?

The pause must take place after the pitcher has assumed the pitching position on the pitchers plate and while the hands are still separated. This is to allow the batter to know that the pitcher is about to pitch and to prevent the immediate step onto the PP and moving directly into the delivery.

The rule does state that the hands must come together for between one and ten seconds as Manny stated, but the interpretation has always been that as long as the hands touch, even if it is during the windup, the requirement is met.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Andy

The rule does state that the hands must come together for between one and ten seconds as Manny stated, but the interpretation has always been that as long as the hands touch, even if it is during the windup, the requirement is met.

Not that I don't believe you, but if that's the accepted interpretation, then as I mentioned before, the rule and rule supplement in the book needs to be changed.

I don't remember that interpretation in any clinics I've attended. Of course, my memory is following the same route as the hair on top of my head...

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

It is my ASA understanding that P must bring both hands together, pause, then when the hands separate the pitch then begins.

The pause is required before the hands are joined, while simulating "taking a signal".

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob

Isn't it the ASA interpretation that the hands must touch to satisfy the 1-10 seconds, i.e., we're not to nitpick less than one second?

I've never heard that before.

RS#40C states in part, "After taking or simulating taking the signal, bringing the hands together and keeping them together a minimum of one second and not more than 10 seconds..."

It doesn't sound like an instantaneous tap of the hands together would meet the requirement. If it does, then the RS needs to be updated.