Softball--pitching circle

[BretMan]

Something that might affect the answers here...

Though I've never worked Little League, I do seem to remember from past discussions that they have (or, had) a slightly different interpretation regarding the look back rule compared to other organizations.

Specifically, does LL have the same clause in their rule about the look back going into effect when the batter-runner reaches first base? I thought that their LBR went into effect immediately when the batter became a batter-runner, before they even get to first base.

[Crabby_Bob]

LLSB: 7.08 - Any runner is out when - (a)(1) [blah, blah, wah, wah, wah] Note 1: [...] When a runner is off a base after a pitch or as a result of a batter completing a turn at bat, and while the pitcher has the ball within the eight (8) foot radius circle, the runner must immediately attempt to advance to the next base or return to the base the runner is entitled. Note 2: If the pitcher has possession of the ball within the pitcher's circle, and is not making a play (a fake throw is considered a play), runners not in contact with their bases must immediately attempt to advance or return to the base. Penalty: The ball is dead. "No pitch" is declared, and the runner is out. Eight (8) foot radius circle must be properly marked.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob

LLSB: 7.08 - Any runner is out when - (a)(1) [blah, blah, wah, wah, wah] Note 1: [...] When a runner is off a base after a pitch or as a result of a batter completing a turn at bat, and while the pitcher has the ball within the eight (8) foot radius circle, the runner must immediately attempt to advance to the next base or return to the base the runner is entitled. Note 2: If the pitcher has possession of the ball within the pitcher's circle, and is not making a play (a fake throw is considered a play), runners not in contact with their bases must immediately attempt to advance or return to the base. Penalty: The ball is dead. "No pitch" is declared, and the runner is out. Eight (8) foot radius circle must be properly marked.

So let me get this straight. In LL Softball, if a batter walks, and halfway up the baseline to first, she stops in her tracks to remove a leg guard or elbow pad, she could be rung up for an out??

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by Manny A

So let me get this straight. In LL Softball, if a batter walks, and halfway up the baseline to first, she stops in her tracks to remove a leg guard or elbow pad, she could be rung up for an out??

Not by me.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Rita C

Not by me.

I wouldn't have done so, either, until I read what Crabby_Bob quoted. There is nothing in the LL rule that says the LBR doesn't start until the BR reaches first base. This has got to be an oversight that LL HQ needs to fix.

[xtremeump]

the runner must immediately attempt to advance to the next base or return to the base the runner is entitled.

INMO the BR does not become R untill she touches 1B ? When I atteneded LL International Umpire School at Williamsport the instruction for Softball was very limited. All of the instructors were Baseball Clinicians.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by xtremeump

INMO the BR does not become R untill she touches 1B ?

True for ASA. But not by the definition of Batter-Runner in the LL rule book:

"BATTER-RUNNER is a term that identifies the offensive player who has just finished a time at bat until that player is retired or until the play on which that player becomes a runner ends."

NFHS's definition of Batter-Runner is similar to the LL definition.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I wouldn't have done so, either, until I read what Crabby_Bob quoted. There is nothing in the LL rule that says the LBR doesn't start until the BR reaches first base. This has got to be an oversight that LL HQ needs to fix.

Until a few years ago, ASA did not have anything stating the LBR went into effect until the BR was retired or became a runner

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I wouldn't have done so, either, until I read what Crabby_Bob quoted. There is nothing in the LL rule that says the LBR doesn't start until the BR reaches first base. This has got to be an oversight that LL HQ needs to fix.

I assume you are all aware that the "reaching 1st" is a recent change.

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by Manny A

So let me get this straight. In LL Softball, if a batter walks, and halfway up the baseline to first, she stops in her tracks to remove a leg guard or elbow pad, she could be rung up for an out??

No.. becuase that batter who just walked is not yet a runner, she is still a batter-runner. However it looks like in LLSB another runner who left base and stopped between bases while F1 has ball in circle would be called out whereas in NFHS and ASA they are not subject to the lookback rule until the batter-runner reaches 1B. Weird.