ITB wrong runner

[shipwreck]

Over the years I have seen charts that show rule differences between ASA, Federation, NCAA etc. This one I have never seen listed though. ITB, incorrect runner placed at second. ASA says put correct runner on base, don't declare an out even if they have advanced. Looks like NCAA says, call "no pitch" declare runner out. Big difference. You would think it would be in the rule difference pages, unless I missed this one. Dave

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

Over the years I have seen charts that show rule differences between ASA, Federation, NCAA etc. This one I have never seen listed though. ITB, incorrect runner placed at second. ASA says put correct runner on base, don't declare an out even if they have advanced. Looks like NCAA says, call "no pitch" declare runner out. Big difference. You would think it would be in the rule difference pages, unless I missed this one. Dave

If the umpire is doing his job, this will never occur.

[shipwreck]

I agree completely but they put this specific scenario in both rule books. Can't for the life of me see how an umpire would let this happen. Probably put in just in case. Dave

[youngump]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

I agree completely but they put this specific scenario in both rule books. Can't for the life of me see how an umpire would let this happen. Probably put in just in case. Dave

First of all this is something that rarely happens, so having an umpire get it wrong rulewise doesn't seem like it would be that unexpected.
But the way I've done it I can imagine following my protocol and still getting it wrong. I walk over the coach and scorebook, ask the scorekeeper to tell me who will come up last in the inning, ask her to verify that the batter coming up is the one who hits right after her and we send that girl out to base. Generally the scorekeeper is on the other side of the fence and so I can't see the book well enough to figure out for myself if she's right. If she has the wrong batter due up, she could very well give me the wrong runner and I'd take her out to base.
Maybe the last out of the last inning was a caught stealing and she sends me the previous batter as my runner. If that girl stole third and then the batter popped out and then we got a batting out of order appeal, in resolving that I think I would send the girl who popped out down to third and not feel like I had messed it up.
What say you?

[Skahtboi]

As Mike has already stated, if the umpire is doing his job, then this would not be an issue. It doesn't matter the level of play, when I am the PU and this issue arises, I check with both books to see who they have listed to bat last. Then, if both agree, I confirm that is the the player who is sent to second before play ever resumes. One of the simplest forms of preventative umpiring.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

As Mike has already stated, if the umpire is doing his job, then this would not be an issue. It doesn't matter the level of play, when I am the PU and this issue arises, I check with both books to see who they have listed to bat last. Then, if both agree, I confirm that is the the player who is sent to second before play ever resumes. One of the simplest forms of preventative umpiring.

I've never gone to the second book when doing this (any of the three times). But I think I'll definitely add it as it seems a good idea.

That said, I've never had an ITB game as PU, and in all three games getting the runner was a thing I did as BU. Do you usually have the PU handle that?

[MD Longhorn]

Why do you guys involve people who could screw it up (scorekeepers) by asking them questions they could screw up?

All you need from the scorekeeper is who is up to start the next inning. Get out your lineup card, and tell the coach who to put on 2nd.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Why do you guys involve people who could screw it up (scorekeepers) by asking them questions they could screw up?

All you need from the scorekeeper is who is up to start the next inning. Get out your lineup card, and tell the coach who to put on 2nd.

Bingo

[xtremeump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Why do you guys involve people who could screw it up (scorekeepers) by asking them questions they could screw up?

All you need from the scorekeeper is who is up to start the next inning. Get out your lineup card, and tell the coach who to put on 2nd.

Very good post, Thank You. If the coach sends up the wrong batter are we going to tell him/her ? If they send up the # 4 batter I am going to make sure by my line up card that the # 3 batter is on 2B.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Why do you guys involve people who could screw it up (scorekeepers) by asking them questions they could screw up?

Like for example: Who is up to start the next inning?

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

All you need from the scorekeeper is who is up to start the next inning.

I have a lot more trouble seeing them mess up who bats before #32 then seeing them mess up who is up now.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

Like for example: Who is up to start the next inning?

I have a lot more trouble seeing them mess up who bats before #32 then seeing them mess up who is up now.

Really? That makes sense. You think it's more likely they would be unable to tell you who is up next than answering correctly who is up before that person. That makes lots of sense.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Why do you guys involve people who could screw it up (scorekeepers) by asking them questions they could screw up?

All you need from the scorekeeper is who is up to start the next inning. Get out your lineup card, and tell the coach who to put on 2nd.

I have my lineup card out. However, from years of working in a business where CYA is a very important thing, going to both books and checking what I show make sure that everyone is on the same page. Again, preventative umpiring.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Why do you guys involve people who could screw it up (scorekeepers) by asking them questions they could screw up?

All you need from the scorekeeper is who is up to start the next inning. Get out your lineup card, and tell the coach who to put on 2nd.

Well, the wrong batter could lead off.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Really? That makes sense. You think it's more likely they would be unable to tell you who is up next than answering correctly who is up before that person. That makes lots of sense.

Well, knowing who is up means you had to correctly capture the end of the last inning and potentially know the rules about who follows who. Maybe the last batter of the inning was out of order and the scorebook didn't notice. Maybe it was a caught stealing and she thinks the next batter is due up. But I think it would take a special blend of not able to keep the scorebook correctly to not be able to tell me who is up before a particular player.

But perhaps you just mean that it's harder to tell me who is before the person who is up than it is to tell me who is up. That I'll grant you. But once I find out who is up, which both you and I do by talking to the scorekeeper, the rest of it seems easy enough for the scorekeeper to do.

[EsqUmp]

What we have trained umpires to do in PONY and NYSSO is to have the base umpire check the runner with the 3rd base coach and the plate umpire to check the runner with the 1st base coach. They can then just call the number out to each other. The reason for that is because it gets the base umpire on the side of the infield he will be starting on. Even experienced umpires have been caught with their pants down on the 1st base line.