How do you handle this

[chapmaja]

I had this in a JV game a few weeks ago.

I am the BU. Runners on 2nd and 3rd, or bases loaded. Fly ball towards the gap between LF and CF. LF is speedy and might get to the ball. I decide 1 am going out, so I yell "Going" to my partner. The ball bounces off the LF's glove near the wall. Since there was only 1 out, players held up on the play to see if it would be caught. After the bounces off the LF's glove when she made a diving attempt, she immediately picks it up and fires it to the SS (cutoff), who guns it to second base. B4 had rounded second thinking of going to third and was now making a quick retreat back to 2b. The throw comes in and there is a close play at 2b. Since this was 2man, and I had gone out, I was watching the play, but wasn't in position to make the call. I look for my partner to make the call, and he is standing behind home plate.

What should I do? Should I wait for him to make a decision, even though I don't think he was watching the play? Should I call the play the way I saw it from about 20 feet into the outfield grass and about 45 degrees to the base?



I did not go out on another fly ball the rest of that game because I wasn't sure if he would cover the bases or not on the play.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I had this in a JV game a few weeks ago.

I am the BU. Runners on 2nd and 3rd, or bases loaded. Fly ball towards the gap between LF and CF. LF is speedy and might get to the ball. I decide 1 am going out, so I yell "Going" to my partner. The ball bounces off the LF's glove near the wall. Since there was only 1 out, players held up on the play to see if it would be caught. After the bounces off the LF's glove when she made a diving attempt, she immediately picks it up and fires it to the SS (cutoff), who guns it to second base. B4 had rounded second thinking of going to third and was now making a quick retreat back to 2b. The throw comes in and there is a close play at 2b. Since this was 2man, and I had gone out, I was watching the play, but wasn't in position to make the call. I look for my partner to make the call, and he is standing behind home plate.

What should I do? Should I wait for him to make a decision, even though I don't think he was watching the play? Should I call the play the way I saw it from about 20 feet into the outfield grass and about 45 degrees to the base?



I did not go out on another fly ball the rest of that game because I wasn't sure if he would cover the bases or not on the play.

I think you should buy your partner dinner.
And lots of beer.

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I had this in a JV game a few weeks ago.

I am the BU. Runners on 2nd and 3rd, or bases loaded. Fly ball towards the gap between LF and CF. LF is speedy and might get to the ball. I decide 1 am going out, so I yell "Going" to my partner. The ball bounces off the LF's glove near the wall. Since there was only 1 out, players held up on the play to see if it would be caught. After the bounces off the LF's glove when she made a diving attempt, she immediately picks it up and fires it to the SS (cutoff), who guns it to second base. B4 had rounded second thinking of going to third and was now making a quick retreat back to 2b. The throw comes in and there is a close play at 2b. Since this was 2man, and I had gone out, I was watching the play, but wasn't in position to make the call. I look for my partner to make the call, and he is standing behind home plate.

What should I do? Should I wait for him to make a decision, even though I don't think he was watching the play? Should I call the play the way I saw it from about 20 feet into the outfield grass and about 45 degrees to the base?



I did not go out on another fly ball the rest of that game because I wasn't sure if he would cover the bases or not on the play.

Your partners call he needs to make one. if he did not see it he must call safe. When and if he comes to you you can give him what you have.

This is a good example of why we should pregame.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I had this in a JV game a few weeks ago.

I am the BU. Runners on 2nd and 3rd, or bases loaded.

Which was it.....runners on 2nd & 3rd or bases loaded????

I did not go out on another fly ball the rest of that game because I wasn't sure if he would cover the bases or not on the play.

Why? Because you figure he scr**ed up on the previous play?

As pointed out earlier.....pre-game. Adding my .02 cents to that reply....you might want to to re-think your chase read/process/react criteria with multiple runners on base when working two-man.

[EsqUmp]

You need to do what is right as the base umpire. You don't deviate from proper mechanics because of your partner's poor mechanics.

Umpires don't learn mechanics when someone else substitutes and covers.

Speak with the umpire, ask him how far up his a$$ his head was. He shouldn't be standing directly behind home plate to begin with. The ball has to go 200 feet out and 200 feet back, and the umpire probably didn't take 1 step for every 100 feet the ball traveled.

[MD Longhorn]

I disagree on pre-gaming this... this is standard. Pregaming what PU should do when BU goes out is like pregaming that you'll be in B with a runner on first. It's basic. You pregame the optional stuff or the weird stuff... not the baby stuff.

PU screwed the pooch.

That said, in your situation, I would hesitate and then once you realize he's not going to make a call, make it. Then when the inning is over, discuss it with him. If he was just asleep at the wheel, move on... if he's not qualified for this game and NEEDS to be spoon fed the baby stuff, do it.

But don't refuse to go out the rest of the game because he screwed up once. This is the equivalent of deciding to make fair/foul calls because you saw him miss one.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

you might want to to re-think your chase read/process/react criteria with multiple runners on base when working two-man.

Curious why you would say this. He said, "The ball bounces off the LF's glove near the wall." I can't imagine NOT going out on such a ball could possibly be the right answer. I'm not exactly famous for taking chap's side on this site... But in this case going out had to be right.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Curious why you would say this. He said, "The ball bounces off the LF's glove near the wall." I can't imagine NOT going out on such a ball could possibly be the right answer. I'm not exactly famous for taking chap's side on this site... But in this case going out had to be right.

Mike.....

Where I was going with the question I posed to the OP, was for me to get a better understanding of the sitch at the start of the play.

I'm BU, I know from the OP I've got 1 out. 2nd & 3rd? or bases full (still don't know). With bases full, if I have to chase, I need to be aware that my PU is going to have a lot to cover....even if from a positioning and mechanics standpoint he does everything properly.

Certainly, "ball bounces of LF's glove near the wall" is trouble and requires recognition and reaction by the crew....BU chasing PU recognizing that he is now responsible for BR and three runners; or BU button-hooks into the in field, PU taking the catch no-catch, BU picking up his base runner(s)/BR responsibilities.

What's the point I'm trying to make???

I've got no problem with the chase by the BU, I've got no problem if he chose not to chase, and maybe as implied in the OP the PU didn't do enough on his end of the play. But with basess loaded (?) and the BU chasing I think that the best the PU could have to done on the call at 2nd, (assuming the speed at which the play developed) was a calling position somewhere in the area between HP and the circle.

Maybe in this sitch the PU isn't advanced enough in his mechanics to realize OK, I've got three runner crossing the plate and I've possibly got another play I've got to get in position to cover.

This was a play with a lot of 'moving parts', depending on the experience and umpiring savvy of the crew, not an easy one to properly cover. The PU's coverage wasn't correct, but IMO he's getting tossed under the bus a tad quickly.

I will disagree with you on not covering this in a pre-game, and apologize to everyone for a rather long winded rambling reply.

Of course this is all.....JMHO.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Curious why you would say this. He said, "The ball bounces off the LF's glove near the wall." I can't imagine NOT going out on such a ball could possibly be the right answer. I'm not exactly famous for taking chap's side on this site... But in this case going out had to be right.

I will go on record as disagreeing with the chase decision. I personally think that base umpires chasing because of the less than 1% catch/no catch situation that the plate umpire MAY not clearly see (but HAS to judge any other fr*cking time the same ball is NOT in a chase area) compared to the probably 50% or more liklihood of a play at the bases that plate umpire can NEVER get in good position for, let alone the possibility of multiple plays on multiple runners, multiple appeals for leaving early, missed bases, etc..

Yep, put me down for STAY HERE AND BE A BASE UMPIRE, not chase that low percentage issue.

Chase with 3 man mechanics, because we now revert to two man, OK. Chase in 2 man, better be one or no runners in my game.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

I will disagree with you on not covering this in a pre-game,

Perhaps this varies from place to place.

I can promise that if I show up for a game and during the pre-game say, "If I go out, you cover the bases", the reaction will be one of the following:
1) Of course, rookie.
2) Of course ... do you think this is my first game?
3) No shit, Sherlock.

It would be the same as if I said ... "If we have a runner on first, I'll be in B."

Granted ... if the pregame starts with my partner saying something like... "Wow, this is only my 3rd game behind the plate!" or if my assignor warned me that my partner was green as grass, things would be different.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I will go on record as disagreeing with the chase decision. I personally think that base umpires chasing because of the less than 1% catch/no catch situation that the plate umpire MAY not clearly see (but HAS to judge any other fr*cking time the same ball is NOT in a chase area) compared to the probably 50% or more liklihood of a play at the bases that plate umpire can NEVER get in good position for, let alone the possibility of multiple plays on multiple runners, multiple appeals for leaving early, missed bases, etc..

Yep, put me down for STAY HERE AND BE A BASE UMPIRE, not chase that low percentage issue.

Chase with 3 man mechanics, because we now revert to two man, OK. Chase in 2 man, better be one or no runners in my game.

I will agree with Steve here. In two umpire mechanics, my training has always been that, yes, the BU can chase whenever s/he feels it necessary, but with multiple runners, it "shouldn't" be necessary.

I will also stick up a bit for the PU here, speaking as if I was the PU. It is entirely possible that when this ball was hit, the PU saw that it might be a trouble ball, and focused on the fielders and the catch/no catch. He may not have picked up the the BU chased. If I was PU in a two umpire system on this play, I would not expect my partner to chase with 2 or 3 runners on base. That being said, I would still be out in the infield toward where the play was made and not standing behind the plate.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Andy

I will agree with Steve here. In two umpire mechanics, my training has always been that, yes, the BU can chase whenever s/he feels it necessary, but with multiple runners, it "shouldn't" be necessary.

I will also stick up a bit for the PU here, speaking as if I was the PU. It is entirely possible that when this ball was hit, the PU saw that it might be a trouble ball, and focused on the fielders and the catch/no catch. He may not have picked up the the BU chased. If I was PU in a two umpire system on this play, I would not expect my partner to chase with 2 or 3 runners on base. That being said, I would still be out in the infield toward where the play was made and not standing behind the plate.

More good possibilities. Even more reason to not decide, as BU, to never go out again with this partner, and instead to go discuss with partner in between innings.

[topper]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Perhaps this varies from place to place.

I can promise that if I show up for a game and during the pre-game say, "If I go out, you cover the bases", the reaction will be one of the following:
1) Of course, rookie.
2) Of course ... do you think this is my first game?
3) No shit, Sherlock.

And my reply to you would be:
1) Don't go out with multiple runners on base.
2) See #1

I just got a invitation to work on your side of town. I may have to accept, it sounds like fun. As long as it's not over 80 degrees.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by topper

I just got a invitation to work on your side of town. I may have to accept, it sounds like fun. As long as it's not over 80 degrees.

Are you fr*ckin' kidding? Here is the weather forecast for Las Vegas JO Classic this weekend:

Thursday high 105, low 79, 0% chance of rain
Friday high 107, low 82, 0% chance of rain
Saturday high 110, low 82, 0% chance of rain
Sunday high 107, low 79, 0% chance of rain

[topper]

Yeah, Steve, but it's a dry heat. And it's Vegas!