Tenn v. Bama

[EsqUmp]

Bases loaded. Fly ball about 5 feet onto the grass directly behind 2nd base. CF runs in, bobbles the ball and drops it. They pick the ball up and get the force on R1 going into 2nd base.

To my surprise, I see the 3rd base umpire making the call. 1BU went out on the ball; however, there was no where to go out to. She must have gone out to accept responsibility for the call. Now the 3BU has to fly over to 2nd for the call.

It's rather shocking to me that the NCAA hasn't gone to shared responsibility on catch/no catch regardless of whether the umpire goes out.

Common sense umpiring would mean that 1BU turn to her right, signal "no catch" and then take the play into 2nd base. Why aren't umpires allowed to walk and chew gum at the same time?

When I first got into umpiring, our state mechanics used shared responsibility. It seemed to be logical and as a brand new umpire, I had no trouble using these mechanics. 15 years later, the mechanic is the same for my state and 2500 umpire use it without a problem.

Anyone who believes that there is a close correlation between proximity to the play and correctness of the call has to see the logic behind shared responsibility, without then wasting the umpire.

[shagpal]

Maybe they pregamed that.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by shagpal

Maybe they pregamed that.

I wouldn't recommend pregaming that a base umpire goes out on what amounts to an infield hit.

[Tru_in_Blu]

I believe bases were loaded at the time, so the third base umpire started off the 3rd base line.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I believe bases were loaded at the time, so the third base umpire started off the 3rd base line.

He started on the 3rd base line.

[shagpal]

I have had partners tell me they might only turn to make that call, and perhaps hold up a hand to indicate they are staying in. Not "pivot" in the college sense, but simply opening up, making the call, then turning back in.

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

I wouldn't recommend pregaming that a base umpire goes out on what amounts to an infield hit.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

I wouldn't recommend pregaming that a base umpire goes out on what amounts to an infield hit.

Sometimes a "pre-game" isn't so much between partners as it is a "from-me-to-you" from a UIC or other umpire supervisor.

Don't like it and have never done it, but know of UICs that instruct (not optional) BU to "go out on everything that is not in front of you". I think it is absolutely absurd, but it happens with some UICs of any type of softball game.

[Andy]

I would think that on a fly ball that shallow, with F8 charging in with the possibility of a shoestring catch, you would want an umpire chasing to get a good angle on that.

I don't work a lot of 3 umpire in the NCAA system, but I do know that the philosophy is to chase on "trouble" balls...and this meets that criteria from the initial description.

If I was U3 in this situation, I would expect my U1 partner to be chasing and I would have any calls at first or second.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

I would think that on a fly ball that shallow, with F8 charging in with the possibility of a shoestring catch, you would want an umpire chasing to get a good angle on that.

I don't work a lot of 3 umpire in the NCAA system, but I do know that the philosophy is to chase on "trouble" balls...and this meets that criteria from the initial description.

If I was U3 in this situation, I would expect my U1 partner to be chasing and I would have any calls at first or second.

That's because it only takes someone as big as you three steps to get into position

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by Andy

I would think that on a fly ball that shallow, with F8 charging in with the possibility of a shoestring catch, you would want an umpire chasing to get a good angle on that.

I don't work a lot of 3 umpire in the NCAA system, but I do know that the philosophy is to chase on "trouble" balls...and this meets that criteria from the initial description.

If I was U3 in this situation, I would expect my U1 partner to be chasing and I would have any calls at first or second.

What is often lost in the entire "chase" theory in softball is the fact that quite often, the umpire can't get more than two or three steps before the ball gets to the defender. As a result, far too many umpires are moving when the ball arrives, rather than stopping, getting set and focusing. In that case, the umpire is better off not going at all.

While there are some occasions where going out is helpful, all too often the resulting position isn't much better, if at all, than the original position. Another problem is that umpires "chase" fly balls. This is a horrible term as it implies that the umpire should, wait for it...chase the ball. That is far from the truth. The umpire should run to get as close to a 90 degree angle looking into the ball.

Consider this: A baseball umpire's starting position is approximately 115 feet from home plate. From his original position, the foul pole can be another 190 feet away. In softball, the foul pole is 190 from home plate. So a baseball umpire's original starting position is the same distance as the plate umpire's position in softball. Somehow the baseball umpire's get most correct and look at the difference in distance, plus the added difficultly because of the smaller ball.

In the play I brought up, the 1BU couldn't possibly gain an advantage by "going out." The most she could have taken was a step and she would have gotten the 90 degree angle. In all reality, if the 2nd baseman had been playing back and actually made a play on the ball, this could have been (though it ultimately wasn't) a potential infield fly. I tend not to go out on infield flies.

My primary point, however, is that if NCAA would simply let the base umpire have catch/no catch responsibility WITHOUT having to commit to going out, they would make must greater use of all umpires.

Here's another example: No runners on. Low liner to the right fielder. NCAA would have the base umpire go out and then have the plate umpire take the play on BR at 1st base. Reality: 1BU can't take but two steps before having to get set. Getting 6 feet closer does virtually nothing to help get the call right. Why not have 1BU turn, signal fair/foul & catch/no catch, then turn back and make the call at 1st base?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Don't like it and have never done it, but know of UICs that instruct (not optional) BU to "go out on everything that is not in front of you". I think it is absolutely absurd, but it happens with some UICs of any type of softball game.

Why do you consider it absurd?

Here's why I prefer to chase everything: It establishes a routine. Any fly ball that goes out, I know I need to make the call. If I don't make it a habit, that's when I go in and make my PU partner call a trouble ball that I really should have taken responsibility for.

Yes, I know all about Pause, Read, and React. But let's face it, even the best umpires sometimes React before they Pause and Read (how often have we seen MLB umpires make the dreaded "OUT...NO, SAFE!" call?) Stuff happens.

I've also heard the arguments that it makes zero sense to chase cans of corn. Perhaps. But those cans of corn can quickly turn to crap when the fielder suddenly raises his/her arms because he/she lost the ball in the sun, or he/she simply initially muffs it, and he/she adjusts at the last second to turn the ordinary into extraordinary. Ya just never know.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I've also heard the arguments that it makes zero sense to chase cans of corn. Perhaps. But those cans of corn can quickly turn to crap when the fielder suddenly raises his/her arms because he/she lost the ball in the sun, or he/she simply initially muffs it, and he/she adjusts at the last second to turn the ordinary into extraordinary. Ya just never know.

Fair enough, but consider this.

Is 1 umpire covering 4 bases better or worse than 2?
Are 2 umpires covering 4 bases better or worse than 3?

Depending on whether you started with 2 or 3 umpires - every time you go out on a can of corn, you've diminished your crew for the rest of that play.

So ask yourself ... what is the percentage of those cans of corn that you're going out on that turn into "something extraordinary"? 1%? Probably less if you're honest. The question then becomes - is it worth diminishing your crew 99% of the time so that you can briefly have better coverage on the 1%?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Why do you consider it absurd?

Here's why I prefer to chase everything: It establishes a routine. Any fly ball that goes out, I know I need to make the call. If I don't make it a habit, that's when I go in and make my PU partner call a trouble ball that I really should have taken responsibility for.

Yes, I know all about Pause, Read, and React. But let's face it, even the best umpires sometimes React before they Pause and Read (how often have we seen MLB umpires make the dreaded "OUT...NO, SAFE!" call?) Stuff happens.

I've also heard the arguments that it makes zero sense to chase cans of corn. Perhaps. But those cans of corn can quickly turn to crap when the fielder suddenly raises his/her arms because he/she lost the ball in the sun, or he/she simply initially muffs it, and he/she adjusts at the last second to turn the ordinary into extraordinary. Ya just never know.

It is absurd because it is not necessary. I've seen umpires "go out" on a ball caught by an infielder that had time to camp simply because they were instructed to go out on any ball not in front of you. Same thing with a line drive leaving the IF at head level. I know where the outfielders are and if they are not going to be in a position to even come close to catching the ball. Why should I pivot, watch the ball hop three times and then have the OF pick it up and throw it in?

A good umpire knows how to handle this. There are UICs that don't trust all their umpires and will give a blanket command that, IMO, at a game at the national level, should never be necessary.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Bases loaded. Fly ball about 5 feet onto the grass directly behind 2nd base. CF runs in, bobbles the ball and drops it. They pick the ball up and get the force on R1 going into 2nd base.

To my surprise, I see the 3rd base umpire making the call. 1BU went out on the ball; however, there was no where to go out to. She must have gone out to accept responsibility for the call. Now the 3BU has to fly over to 2nd for the call.

It's rather shocking to me that the NCAA hasn't gone to shared responsibility on catch/no catch regardless of whether the umpire goes out.

Common sense umpiring would mean that 1BU turn to her right, signal "no catch" and then take the play into 2nd base. Why aren't umpires allowed to walk and chew gum at the same time?

When I first got into umpiring, our state mechanics used shared responsibility. It seemed to be logical and as a brand new umpire, I had no trouble using these mechanics. 15 years later, the mechanic is the same for my state and 2500 umpire use it without a problem.

Anyone who believes that there is a close correlation between proximity to the play and correctness of the call has to see the logic behind shared responsibility, without then wasting the umpire.

Where would U3 have been positioned with R1 on 1st?

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Where would U3 have been positioned with R1 on 1st?

That wasn't the situation, so I'm not sure why it matters.

If it was only R1 on 1st base at TOP, then 3BU would have been near 2nd base.