Sliding into first with a double bag?

[CecilOne]

Quinleygirl, welcome a(board) !!

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

This disagrees with what the rest of us are saying.

Which is why I like discussion on this board!

The runner is required (if a play is being made) to touch the colored portion of the bag. I've often heard this taught as treating it just like missing the base. So I was thinking that you could still appeal until the runner corrected her mistake and touched the colored bag... much like if a runner slid to 2B but missed it the defense could appeal missing the base by tagging the base unless the runner returns first. (Sure they will probably just tag the runner off base, but in theory they could.) But the double base is different....

Rereading double base rules in both ASA and NFHS the timeframe for appeal ends when the runner returns to the base. The important part that I missed was that both rule sets specify they may return to either the white or the colored portion of the double base. So as my brothers have stated since she never left the base then she has "returned" so remaining on the white is just fine.

Really the only penalty for sliding into the white would be if somehow this slide interfered with the throw.

Proof that you can drink beer, watch NCAA ball on TV, watch it snow outside, and still learn something all at the same time!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

Which is why I like discussion on this board!

The runner is required (if a play is being made) to touch the colored portion of the bag. I've often heard this taught as treating it just like missing the base. So I was thinking that you could still appeal until the runner corrected her mistake and touched the colored bag... much like if a runner slid to 2B but missed it the defense could appeal missing the base by tagging the base unless the runner returns first. (Sure they will probably just tag the runner off base, but in theory they could.) But the double base is different....

Rereading double base rules in both ASA and NFHS the timeframe for appeal ends when the runner returns to the base. The important part that I missed was that both rule sets specify they may return to either the white or the colored portion of the double base. So as my brothers have stated since she never left the base then she has "returned" so remaining on the white is just fine.

Really the only penalty for sliding into the white would be if somehow this slide interfered with the throw.

Okay, speaking ASA, look at it this way. When the BR reaches 1B, the player is no longer a BR. For the R, the color of the portions is irrelevant.

What are you going to do if your partner suspends play and then you get an appeal and the runner STILL hasn't moved off the white? Your stance that the runner hasn't returned is still true, but are you going to accept the appeal? Same criteria you are basing your ruling upon still exists.

Now comes the part I hate the most, but this would come up in a discussion on the rule. "But Blue, the purpose of the rule is to avoid the possibility of a collision and that is just what my runner did by sliding. So, you are going to penalize my guy for doing something for the safety of the other player?"

It is a bullshit argument, but I can hear it now.

[UmpireErnie]

Yep, your right. Never had issue where BR slid in to 1B and the portion of the base she slid to was questioned. Good discussion.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

Which is why I like discussion on this board!

The runner is required (if a play is being made) to touch the colored portion of the bag. I've often heard this taught as treating it just like missing the base. So I was thinking that you could still appeal until the runner corrected her mistake and touched the colored bag... much like if a runner slid to 2B but missed it the defense could appeal missing the base by tagging the base unless the runner returns first. (Sure they will probably just tag the runner off base, but in theory they could.) But the double base is different....

Rereading double base rules in both ASA and NFHS the timeframe for appeal ends when the runner returns to the base. The important part that I missed was that both rule sets specify they may return to either the white or the colored portion of the double base. So as my brothers have stated since she never left the base then she has "returned" so remaining on the white is just fine.

Really the only penalty for sliding into the white would be if somehow this slide interfered with the throw.

Proof that you can drink beer, watch NCAA ball on TV, watch it snow outside, and still learn something all at the same time!

Nice of you to update, and well worded.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Okay, speaking ASA, look at it this way. When the BR reaches 1B, the player is no longer a BR. For the R, the color of the portions is irrelevant.

What are you going to do if your partner suspends play and then you get an appeal and the runner STILL hasn't moved off the white? Your stance that the runner hasn't returned is still true, but are you going to accept the appeal? Same criteria you are basing your ruling upon still exists.

I'm not getting your point.

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Nice of you to update, and well worded.

Well, in all honesty, I think the beer helped.

And on a brighter note..our May snow which fell all afternoon yesterday and last night has quit and seems to be melting. I hope tomorrow is sun, we're gonna need it if my Monday night games are gonna happen!

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

Well, in all honesty, I think the beer helped.

And on a brighter note..our May snow which fell all afternoon yesterday and last night has quit and seems to be melting. I hope tomorrow is sun, we're gonna need it if my Monday night games are gonna happen!

Where in Alaska are you, Anchorage, Fairbanks areas or coastal?

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Where in Alaska are you, Anchorage, Fairbanks areas or coastal?

I'm in Anchorage. We had two big storms in April two weeks before our high school season was to start. In Anchorage we got started a week and a half late, while teams in Fairbanks (who also had a lot of late snow) had their first opportunities to play outdoors at their first game which was an away game down here!

Then we had snow on May 5 and lost that whole day, now another freaky May snowstorm this weekend. (It is May, right??)

Our entire high school season is only five weeks long so losing the equivalent of two weeks really hurts.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Quinleygirl

Close play at first base, the runner decides to slides and slides into the white bag...

Unlike my days umpiring the sport with the small, white, stitched ball, I can honestly say I have never EVER seen a BR slide into first base, much less do so on the white side of a double-first.

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Unlike my days umpiring the sport with the small, white, stitched ball, I can honestly say I have never EVER seen a BR slide into first base, much less do so on the white side of a double-first.

I have seen it, but it is rare. And IMO not a good idea as the slide will slow the BR down prior to reaching the bag. Running thru the bag is faster.The few times I have seen it the bag being slid into (white or colored) never became an issue.

This is probably why the whole appeal of missing the colored base is centered around "returning to the base (either portion)" as the rule makers were thinking of a BR running thru 1B and only touching the white.

Still it's good to talk about those things that "never happen" becuase someday on some field somewhere it will. Spending time talking about weird what-ifs can only increase one's understanding of the rules.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

I have seen it, but it is rare. And IMO not a good idea as the slide will slow the BR down prior to reaching the bag. Running thru the bag is faster.The few times I have seen it the bag being slid into (white or colored) never became an issue.

This is probably why the whole appeal of missing the colored base is centered around "returning to the base (either portion)" as the rule makers were thinking of a BR running thru 1B and only touching the white.

Still it's good to talk about those things that "never happen" becuase someday on some field somewhere it will. Spending time talking about weird what-ifs can only increase one's understanding of the rules.

Only time I've ever seen it, and the only time it makes sense to me, is on a sudden swipe tag attempt after an errant throw.