The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 28, 2013, 09:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Woodstock, GA; Atlanta area
Posts: 2,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Well, that isn't to what I was referring, but apparently too many umpires had a hard time understanding a point and "Swing?"
Not sure you want to limit that to umpires.
__________________
Steve
ASA/ISF/NCAA/NFHS/PGF
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 28, 2013, 09:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
Not sure you want to limit that to umpires.
Maybe not, but who "should" know especially after the training offered and publication of the mechanic?
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 29, 2013, 06:19am
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
Maybe not, but who "should" know especially after the training offered and publication of the mechanic?
Problem is, "Swing?" isn't necessarily appropriate for all situations. If the batter tries to bunt and misses, but the plate umpire didn't see it, a "No" response to "Swing?" would technically be correct.
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 29, 2013, 09:28am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
Problem is, "Swing?" isn't necessarily appropriate for all situations. If the batter tries to bunt and misses, but the plate umpire didn't see it, a "No" response to "Swing?" would technically be correct.
I will still stay "swing" and expect my partner to know a bunt is a type of "swing". Although, maybe "offer" is more generic, including bunt, slap, going for home run, etc.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 29, 2013, 10:18am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Woodstock, GA; Atlanta area
Posts: 2,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
I will still stay "swing" and expect my partner to know a bunt is a type of "swing". Although, maybe "offer" is more generic, including bunt, slap, going for home run, etc.
Just my opinion, but asking "Offer?" sounds like crap. As do the few partners that have verbalized "On the Offer!!"

I suggest you lose that word; there is no offer, I don't believe that word even exists in a rule book or manual. I think you can consider an offer every time the batter even reacts, and the dugout says "she wanted it".

There has been an "ATTEMPT" to contact the ball with the bat. And the best way to deal with those that have issues understanding any part of the game is to strictly use rulebook terminology; any local colloquialism that supposedly "means the same thing" isn't what the game uses. One of my better local umpires is constantly getting in a bind because he always has a different way to explain everything OTHER than using the rulebook verbiage. He is constantly trying to explain why it is the "same thing, just different", instead of using the right words to begin with.

I guess little stuff makes me cringe. When I hear "offer" on a ball field, I expect that umpire to also announce "full count" and hold up two fists. He may also have a two stitch beanie in his equipment bag somewhere.

And while on the topic of words that make me cringe, I thought the offense "scored" runs by touching home plate. When did plate become a verb (as in "plated" a run)??
__________________
Steve
ASA/ISF/NCAA/NFHS/PGF
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 29, 2013, 10:58am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
Just my opinion, but asking "Offer?" sounds like crap. As do the few partners that have verbalized "On the Offer!!"

I suggest you lose that word; there is no offer, I don't believe that word even exists in a rule book or manual. I think you can consider an offer every time the batter even reacts, and the dugout says "she wanted it".

There has been an "ATTEMPT" to contact the ball with the bat. And the best way to deal with those that have issues understanding any part of the game is to strictly use rulebook terminology; any local colloquialism that supposedly "means the same thing" isn't what the game uses. One of my better local umpires is constantly getting in a bind because he always has a different way to explain everything OTHER than using the rulebook verbiage. He is constantly trying to explain why it is the "same thing, just different", instead of using the right words to begin with.

I guess little stuff makes me cringe. When I hear "offer" on a ball field, I expect that umpire to also announce "full count" and hold up two fists. He may also have a two stitch beanie in his equipment bag somewhere.

And while on the topic of words that make me cringe, I thought the offense "scored" runs by touching home plate. When did plate become a verb (as in "plated" a run)??
I fully agree, "offer" was more a language comment than a rules comment, I only use "swing".
"Attempt" is more correct and more generic, as soon as the rain stops, I'll "attempt" to remember it.

Plated, like a lot of other usage, seems to be just announcers trying to sound more interesting. And I generally dislike nouns being used as verbs, also.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 29, 2013, 12:15pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
And I generally dislike nouns being used as verbs, also.
I agree. I can't stand people that noun their verbs.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 30, 2013, 05:19am
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
Just my opinion, but asking "Offer?" sounds like crap. As do the few partners that have verbalized "On the Offer!!"

I suggest you lose that word; there is no offer, I don't believe that word even exists in a rule book or manual.
Well, I certainly respect your opinion. I find it rather amusing that you would let something like that bother you so much.

And, Yes, I do use the word "Offer". Have been for as long as I can remember, and until I read your post, I never heard of anyone saying anything negative about it. True, it's not in a rule book or manual. But what is in a rule book is "Did they go?" and I feel that makes less sense. I simply point and say, "She offered." No evaluator or assignor has ever told me to lose the word.

For me, I don't get too hung up on anything that adds a little--just a little--individuality to the craft. If my partner says, "Swing" or "Yes" or "She went" or whatever, I honestly could care less. I'm more concerned that my partner saw the attempt and acknowledged it accordingly with the appropriate physical mechanic. Maybe it's the baseball umpire in me, but I don't see why we all have to look and sound like automatons out there.

Now, I'm not suggesting we should all have our own unique Strike mechanic like you see in MLB. But when it comes to subtle hand signals to partners, variances in verbal calls, etc., how does that tarnish the quality of umpires out there? I'd rather have a partner who looks sharp, hustles, gets into the right position, and shows sound judgment. After he/she does all that, and then tops it off with "She's out" or "Out" or "HAAAAAAA!", no biggie.

But that's just my opinion, FWIW.

Oh, and one more thing: I don't say "Full Count" and bump two fists together. And I threw away my two-seamer years ago.
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker

Last edited by Manny A; Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 05:21am.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 30, 2013, 06:09am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: East Central, FL
Posts: 1,042
1) I worked with a 2 seam cap guy this weekend.

2) Speaking of things "others" say that get under one's skin..... where the heck did "MY TIME" come from?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 30, 2013, 09:58am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Crete, Nebraska
Posts: 734
Send a message via ICQ to shipwreck
One of my pet peeves is home plate being referred to the "dish" I have had many partners ask me if I wanted to work the dish the first or second game. The only dish I work is at dinner time. Dave
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 30, 2013, 10:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
And, Yes, I do use the word "Offer". Have been for as long as I can remember, and until I read your post, I never heard of anyone saying anything negative about it. True, it's not in a rule book or manual. But what is in a rule book is "Did they go?" and I feel that makes less sense. I simply point and say, "She offered." No evaluator or assignor has ever told me to lose the word.
I don't know why people get so upset at using they as opposed to he or she or him or her as it is quite acceptable. From Merriam-Webster:

The use of they, their, them, and themselves as pronouns of indefinite gender and indefinite number is well established in speech and writing, even in literary and formal contexts. This gives you the option of using the plural pronouns where you think they sound best, and of using the singular pronouns (as he, she, he or she, and their inflected forms) where you think they sound best.

Quote:
For me, I don't get too hung up on anything that adds a little--just a little--individuality to the craft. If my partner says, "Swing" or "Yes" or "She went" or whatever, I honestly could care less.
Really, how much less could you care?

Quote:
I'm more concerned that my partner saw the attempt and acknowledged it accordingly with the appropriate physical mechanic. Maybe it's the baseball umpire in me, but I don't see why we all have to look and sound like automatons out there.
I've never been to any clinic or school where someone was corrected about wording unless it was something inappropriate or not fitting the need. Now, when you start having umpires flapping THEIR arms or tapping THEIR cap or make some other weird type of movements, you can appreciate a standard level of communications. You can also appreciate it when you walk on the field with someone from another part of the country, if not another country, and you can actually understand what they are saying or signaling.

Quote:
Now, I'm not suggesting we should all have our own unique Strike mechanic like you see in MLB. But when it comes to subtle hand signals to partners, variances in verbal calls, etc., how does that tarnish the quality of umpires out there? I'd rather have a partner who looks sharp, hustles, gets into the right position, and shows sound judgment. After he/she does all that, and then tops it off with "She's out" or "Out" or "HAAAAAAA!", no biggie.
Agree, though I think it is a bit more professional without the pronouns.

Quote:
Oh, and one more thing: I don't say "Full Count" and bump two fists together. And I threw away my two-seamer years ago.
I've never worn anything less than a six-stitch, even back in the 60s. Never liked the "beanies". Always thought they took away from a professional look, but that's just me. And the count is always 3-2, not full.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 29, 2013, 11:35am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
Problem is, "Swing?" isn't necessarily appropriate for all situations. If the batter tries to bunt and misses, but the plate umpire didn't see it, a "No" response to "Swing?" would technically be correct.
If you have to check on a bunt, you may want to move over to slow pitch
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 29, 2013, 12:41pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
If you have to check on a bunt, you may want to move over to slow pitch
The recent requirement to "draw back" has caused more defensive requests;
but this also was about linguistics, as well as rules & judgment.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 29, 2013, 09:12pm
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
If you have to check on a bunt, you may want to move over to slow pitch
I've had the few occasions where the batter starts to square and then the catcher stands up to receive a high pitch. It happens.
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 29, 2013, 09:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
I've had the few occasions where the batter starts to square and then the catcher stands up to receive a high pitch. It happens.
Never had that happen, but can certainly understand the need to check if that occurred.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NCAA non approved bat shipwreck Softball 15 Tue Apr 17, 2012 06:34am
ASA Approved Bats? bigsig Softball 4 Mon Feb 07, 2011 07:13am
ASA Illegal/Non-approved bat approved by umpire NCASAUmp Softball 18 Tue Oct 13, 2009 01:51pm
Approved bats surehands Softball 10 Mon Apr 06, 2009 09:46am
Non ASA Approved Bats Dukat Softball 0 Tue Jun 01, 2004 03:33pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:27pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1