Obstruction???

[MD Longhorn]

I have to admit, I'm the coach in this scenario. Not blue. And for the record I did not actually say a word and don't know for sure the umpire saw what I saw. Plus the game had already gotten away from us and there wasn't much time left. However... say he did see what I saw - would you do anything here.

ASA 10U ... if Gold is the top level, we are Pewter or Lead.

R1 on third gets a good lead, but Batter pops up HIGH to F4. Despite numerous cries of BACK!!!!, R1 crosses home and is perhaps 2 steps from the dugout (which happens to be at the far end, just past first base) when she finally realizes she's being told to get back. F4 is similarly slow to recognize the situation and is just happy she caught the ball.

R1 takes 2 steps back toward third base and runs right into F3 (no, I have no idea why she was 4 steps foul), almost falls over, takes about 4 more steps before she's thrown out by a mile.

Was she obstructed. Heck yes. Had she not been obstructed, did she have any chance of getting back in time. Heck no, not even close.

Assuming you see all of this, do you make the call? Do you if it's 14U Gold (unlikely 14U gold players would have done any of this, I grant...)? Do you if your supervisor is in the stands.

Just curious, really.

[RKBUmp]

I feel your pain. I am also helping coach a local rec team and in 8 or so games we have played I have yet to see a single obstruction call let alone signal from any of the umpires. There has also never been an interference call nor a lookback call. It came to a head the other night when a blatant lookback violation was not called and ended up scoring a run. I got the umpire assignor and league VP together and asked exactly what rule set we were playing under because I certainly couldnt figure it out. I was told by the assignor they were allowing the umpires to use their "discretion" as to what they were going to call. I said, so in other words we are playing under a 10 different top secret rule sets at the whim of each different umpire?

My personal opinion is the rules need to be called. It is a learning experience for both the players and coaches. As it stands right now we have teams that are beginning to employ the baseball hijinx of runners trying to play games with the pitcher. We also have every team with their defense camped out on the bases (my girls included) because no one is ever calling obstruction. I try to get my girls off the bases, but there is never a penalty so they dont seem to grasp why they cant be there.

[Manny A]

I don't currently have any ASA books handy, but I thought one exception to the obstruction rule was when a runner was obstructed while returning to a base she left too soon on a caught fly ball. If the obstruction doesn't prevent her from returning to the base safely, she's still out.

Yes, the PU should have still given the delayed dead ball signal. But as it played out--no chance to make it back to the base in time--there is nothing to award.

[MD Longhorn]

Maybe I wasn't entirely clear... it was NOT my intent to complain that it wasn't called... after it happened, I found myself actually wondering if I would have called it, depending on the kinds of things I listed.

By and large, our umpires are quite good - this is the same group I've called with for several years, I'm just on the dark side now that I have a daughter that plays. We've had a few OBS's signaled, and one where enforcement changed the result (against me, but appropriately in my opinion). This league DOES have a single LBR warning, although I've yet to see anyone guilty of LBR.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I don't currently have any ASA books handy, but I thought one exception to the obstruction rule was when a runner was obstructed while returning to a base she left too soon on a caught fly ball. If the obstruction doesn't prevent her from returning to the base safely, she's still out.

Yes, the PU should have still given the delayed dead ball signal. But as it played out--no chance to make it back to the base in time--there is nothing to award.

I see no such exception in my book.

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I see no such exception in my book.

Its in the rules supplement. The example given is a runner on 2nd leaving to early on a caught fly ball and is obstructed trying to return. If the umpire judges the runner still would not have made it back absent the obstruction, the out stands.

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I see no such exception in my book.

8.5.B.1 An obstructed runner may not be called out between two bases where obstructed. EXCEPTIONS: ... e. Leaving a base before a fly ball was first touched.

That exception applies to both the OP and the example given in RS 36.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob

8.5.B.1 An obstructed runner may not be called out between two bases where obstructed. EXCEPTIONS: ... e. Leaving a base before a fly ball was first touched.

Be careful here. That is only an exception to the point that a player cannot be call out between the bases where obstructed. It does not absolve any enforcement, just allows violations to other rules to be applied.

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Be careful here. That is only an exception to the point that a player cannot be call out between the bases where obstructed. It does not absolve any enforcement, just allows violations to other rules to be applied.

Thank you.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

I try to get my girls off the bases, but there is never a penalty so they dont seem to grasp why they cant be there.

One of the added benefits of calling OBS on the F3, for blocking the runner returning to 1B, is seeing the look on the faces of the first base coaches.

I can see the first base coaches don't know what's going on, but only one in about ten, ask me questions.

When they do, I give'em answers.

[Scooby]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Its in the rules supplement. The example given is a runner on 2nd leaving to early on a caught fly ball and is obstructed trying to return. If the umpire judges the runner still would not have made it back absent the obstruction, the out stands.

Is this the same in NCAA?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Scooby

Is this the same in NCAA?

From the NCAA rule book:

A.R. 9.3.3.2: A base runner who leaves second base too soon on a touched fly ball is returning after the ball is caught and is obstructed between second and third bases.
RULING: If the base runner would not have returned safely to second base before the throw arrived, she would remain out.