Rule Trivia

[MD Longhorn]

So ... just one opinion here so far? Really?

[DeputyUICHousto]

Once an obstructed runner is played on by the defense the ball becomes dead. At that point you then award bases. The way I read the OP R1 was played on sliding back in to 2B before a play was made on BR. At that point, the ball becomse dead.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

Once an obstructed runner is played on by the defense the ball becomes dead. At that point you then award bases. The way I read the OP R1 was played on sliding back in to 2B before a play was made on BR. At that point, the ball becomse dead.

I thought it was retired.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

I thought it was retired.

It is.

[MD Longhorn]

What about the fact that when the play is over we are to announce the obstruction and award the runnerS (plural) the bases they would have achieved had there been no obstruction.

Had there been no obstruction on the runner, she would have made it back to 2nd before the BR got anywhere near there. We cannot and should not assume BR would have been put out - it's much more likely she simply returns to first.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

What about the fact that when the play is over we are to announce the obstruction and award the runnerS (plural) the bases they would have achieved had there been no obstruction.

Had there been no obstruction on the runner, she would have made it back to 2nd before the BR got anywhere near there. We cannot and should not assume BR would have been put out - it's much more likely she simply returns to first.

Ahhhh...there is the real question.

When I read the OP, it seemed pretty straightforward that the BR would be out, so I was looking for what the "real" question was.

Since the obstruction rule says that we can award bases to the obstructed runner and any other runners affected by the obstruction, do we consider the B/R as "affected" and place her back on first?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Andy

Ahhhh...there is the real question.

When I read the OP, it seemed pretty straightforward that the BR would be out, so I was looking for what the "real" question was.

Since the obstruction rule says that we can award bases to the obstructed runner and any other runners affected by the obstruction, do we consider the B/R as "affected" and place her back on first?

Re-create the play, absent the obstruction. As I read it, BR would still be on 2nd without paying attention to R1, the only difference is R1 may or may not have been safe back into 2nd on the initial throw behind her; or maybe gets out of the rundown quicker.

In what way was the BR affected? Poor baserunning put her in jeopardy, not the obstruction on R1. If R1 is legally put out (absent obstruction), BR is safe. If R1 gets back safely, with or without obstruction, BR is out when tagged.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

What about the fact that when the play is over we are to announce the obstruction and award the runnerS (plural) the bases they would have achieved had there been no obstruction.

Had there been no obstruction on the runner, she would have made it back to 2nd before the BR got anywhere near there. We cannot and should not assume BR would have been put out - it's much more likely she simply returns to first.

I don't think that's what's meant. What we're asked to do is not piece the play together completely as if there had been no obstruction but to determine who did something different because of the obstruction.
In this play, R1 is going to be back at second safely absent the obstruction as determined at the time of the obstruction. Therefore, BR is not going to get second absent the obstruction. If R1, realizing she has been obstructed decides to try for 3rd, the BR may decide to advance to second. But she is certainly not protected in doing so despite the fact that absent the obstruction she does not attempt to take the base.
Now, it's likely instructive to consider a case where the runner being obstructed clearly does make a difference to BR.
R1 is obstructed coming around second on an obvious double to left field. Realizing she can't make third now and unaware the umpire saw the obstruction she returns to second causing the BR to return to first. After the play award both runners an extra base.
Is your case more like my second or my like the first? I'd say more like the first. Yes, had R1 not been obstructed it is possible that BR would not have made the same baserunning mistake, but it's too much of a stretch for me.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

I don't think that's what's meant. What we're asked to do is not piece the play together completely as if there had been no obstruction but to determine who did something different because of the obstruction.
In this play, R1 is going to be back at second safely absent the obstruction as determined at the time of the obstruction. Therefore, BR is not going to get second absent the obstruction. If R1, realizing she has been obstructed decides to try for 3rd, the BR may decide to advance to second. But she is certainly not protected in doing so despite the fact that absent the obstruction she does not attempt to take the base.
Now, it's likely instructive to consider a case where the runner being obstructed clearly does make a difference to BR.
R1 is obstructed coming around second on an obvious double to left field. Realizing she can't make third now and unaware the umpire saw the obstruction she returns to second causing the BR to return to first. After the play award both runners an extra base.
Is your case more like my second or my like the first? I'd say more like the first. Yes, had R1 not been obstructed it is possible that BR would not have made the same baserunning mistake, but it's too much of a stretch for me.

I hear you. I think it's in between, and I can see an umpire ruling either way. We don't ever hold the baserunner accountable for knowing OBS was ruled. It's entirely possible BR rounded, and was going to return, but upon seeing R1 heading for 3rd advanced to 2nd ... and then when R1 started returning decided they couldn't make it back to first and stayed to avoid being doubled up.

I guess it's on the umpire here to decide of BR simply made a mistake, or took 2nd based on actions that never would have occurred without the obstruction.

[RKBUmp]

Ball isnt dead unless the obstructed runner is put out prior to reaching the base they would have reached absent the obstruction. A play was made on the obstructed runner, but she was safe diving back into 2nd. BR was then tagged while also on 2nd. I also have the BR out, based on the description in the OP the runner was obstructed returning to 2nd and she was safe, no dead ball, no base awards.