Softball Trivia

[MD Longhorn]

I'm finding very little agreement with me (just Dave, really) with what I am POSITIVE is the correct ruling... so I thought I'd post here. Even my LY supervisor disagrees with me. I'm changing the play slightly to clarify part of the original question that was not clear...

Bases loaded, 1 out. The batter pops up, and the ump calls "infield fly!" No one makes an attempt to field it, and the ball lands near the 1B line, where it hits the batter in fair territory as she is jogging out the hit. After the ball richochets off the batter, R1 on third comes off the bag; the 1B picks up the ball and fires to 3rd, where they tag the runner there, who was still off base. What's the call?

[RadioBlue]

All right, I'll give this a shot without checking a rules book. (Good to get the softball rules blood flowing.)

The IFF penalty is enforced as soon as the ball is fair. (In this case, when it hit B1.) Since B1 was retired the moment the ball became fair, I'm gonna say the ball hitting B1 is interference by a retired runner which causes the ball to become dead. B1 is out and the runner closest to home (R1) is out. The subsequent play on R1 is of no consequence.

Am I close?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

Am I close?

You are close if all those people I insist are wrong are instead right! (Yours is the crux of the argument I disagree with).

I'll ask just one follow up question to you specifically... if the ball becomes fair the instant it hits the BR (making BR - was BR out BEFORE the ball hit him?) IOW - he wasn't "retired" until the exact same instant that the (supposed) interference occurred.

However, I will also say this is NOT the crux of the argument, to me.

[DaveASA/FED]

Looks like in ASA you only have 1 out. 8.2.i says:
I. When an infield fly is declared and the fair batted ball hits the batter-runner
before reaching first base.
EFFECT: The ball is dead and the infield fly is invoked.

[CecilOne]

As far as I know, in the IFR the batter is out at the moment the ball is struck; as long as it turns out to be an IF and that includes being fair.

The batter running toward 1st was retired because the above happened.
That seems like a dead ball to me.

[egj13]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I'm finding very little agreement with me (just Dave, really) with what I am POSITIVE is the correct ruling... so I thought I'd post here. Even my LY supervisor disagrees with me.

I am going to answer this with some words of wisdom from MD Longhorn himself when I found myself in his situation last week...cause after all I feel his frustration.

"In my experience, if 99% of the people are saying one thing, and one person is saying something different, it's the one that's wrong 99% of the time. If you find yourself thinking you're the only one on this board that knows something, I guarantee you that you're wrong" MD Longhorn

"But sure, you're right, and everyone else is wrong. Everyone. OK. Nice ego there" MD Longhorn

Serious though MD...I feel your frustration.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I'm finding very little agreement with me (just Dave, really) with what I am POSITIVE is the correct ruling... so I thought I'd post here. Even my LY supervisor disagrees with me. I'm changing the play slightly to clarify part of the original question that was not clear...

Bases loaded, 1 out. The batter pops up, and the ump calls "infield fly!" No one makes an attempt to field it, and the ball lands near the 1B line, where it hits the batter in fair territory as she is jogging out the hit. After the ball richochets off the batter, R1 on third comes off the bag; the 1B picks up the ball and fires to 3rd, where they tag the runner there, who was still off base. What's the call?

B1 is out upon contact with a fair batted ball. Dead ball. INT only if there is INT. Runners not called out for INT, are on the base last touched at the time of the INT.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

B1 is out upon contact with a fair batted ball. Dead ball. INT only if there is INT. Runners not called out for INT, are on the base last touched at the time of the INT.

And, regardless what happens AFTER the ball ricochets off, I am going to have a hard time seeing an interference at the time of contact when your OP states "no one makes an attempt to field it".

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

You are close if all those people I insist are wrong are instead right! (Yours is the crux of the argument I disagree with).

I'll ask just one follow up question to you specifically... if the ball becomes fair the instant it hits the BR (making BR - was BR out BEFORE the ball hit him?) IOW - he wasn't "retired" until the exact same instant that the (supposed) interference occurred.

However, I will also say this is NOT the crux of the argument, to me.

BR is not out until it's an IFF which requires the ball to be fair. Since the question of fair/foul cannot be answered until, in this case, it hits the BR, then yes, it is instantaneously both of the following: a fair ball and an IFF.

And, regardless what happens AFTER the ball ricochets off, I am going to have a hard time seeing an interference at the time of contact when your OP states "no one makes an attempt to field it".

Steve, this is a valid point IMO. In fact, as stated in the OP this alleged interference may have actually been of great assistance to the defense.

Mike, what are you saying would the proper ruling IYO?

[Manny A]

Hmmmm. Is the batter-runner really a viable batter-runner for rules purposes after she's been declared out do to the IFF? Or is she no longer a viable batter-runner once that declaration has been made?

I don't see anything that would lead us to keep her as a batter-runner while the ball's disposition of fair or foul is still up in the air (no pun intended). Suppose the batter hits a very high fly that is declared an IFF. Before it reaches the ground, the batter-runner passes the runner at first base. Do you then call her out for passing the runner and score it that way in the book? Or do you still have her out for the IFF?

I'm not sure if that's what Mike is hung up on, nor am I sure it has any bearing on this particular play. I guess the question boils down to this: Is this considered a fair batted ball hitting a batter-runner, or a fair batted ball blocked by an offensive team member?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Looks like in ASA you only have 1 out. 8.2.i says:
I. When an infield fly is declared and the fair batted ball hits the batter-runner
before reaching first base.
EFFECT: The ball is dead and the infield fly is invoked.

If we are talking ASA,
I don't understand what else needs to be said.

[AtlUmpSteve]

The answer I have is that IF it is a fair batted ball, then that is a retired offensive team member that blocked the ball, not a batter-runner; but if it ends up foul, it is simply a foul ball. Nothing inherently wrong with a batter running to first instinctively when hitting the ball, even if she can't ever actually be a batter-runner in this case.

Despite being blocked (and thus immediately dead) by the retired batter, there must be a "play" for there to be interference.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

The answer I have is that IF it is a fair batted ball, then that is a retired offensive team member that blocked the ball, not a batter-runner; but if it ends up foul, it is simply a foul ball. Nothing inherently wrong with a batter running to first instinctively when hitting the ball, even if she can't ever actually be a batter-runner in this case.

Despite being blocked (and thus immediately dead) by the retired batter, there must be a "play" for there to be interference.

What he said.

[HugoTafurst]

Mr. MD Longhorn,
OK, what was (is) it that you want the call to be?

[DeputyUICHousto]

I'm reading too much into this or not thinking it through but...if a runner going from 1st to 2nd is hit with a fair batted ball do we get the runner closest to home out also?