home plate

coachz · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 26, 2003, 12:06am

i saw a weird one today in a girls 10u tournament game

the home plate ump cleaned the plate by tilting it up then he replaced it about 6" up the first base line.

the pitcher was having a little trouble throwing strikes and one of her coaches asked the ump between pitches if he would move the plate back to the proper position.

the umps response was to ask the coach to move to the other end of the dugout.

he actually left the plate out of position until after a play at the plate , when he cleaned the base again, and moved it to its proper location.

mick · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 26, 2003, 07:38am

Quote:

Originally posted by coachz
i saw a weird one today in a girls 10u tournament game

the home plate ump cleaned the plate by tilting it up then he replaced it about 6" up the first base line.

the pitcher was having a little trouble throwing strikes and one of her coaches asked the ump between pitches if he would move the plate back to the proper position.

the umps response was to ask the coach to move to the other end of the dugout.

he actually left the plate out of position until after a play at the plate , when he cleaned the base again, and moved it to its proper location.

coachz,
Welcome to the forum.
I agree that it is a shame

the umpire did not place the plate in it's proper relation to the rest of the field

the umpire displayed poor judgment in responding to the coach/manager request.

Further, it is unfortunate

that home plate was moveable

that the tournament administrators refused to acknowledge the need for suitable facilities

that more volunteers are not available/willing to assist in the overall managment of tournaments.

A misaligned home plate would make me crazy!
mick

SC Ump · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 26, 2003, 08:05am

Quote:

Originally posted by coachz
... 6" up the first base line.

the pitcher was having a little trouble throwing strikes...

I completely agree with Mick's post. Completely.

But that is not why why she had trouble throwing stikes. She had trouble throwing strikes becuse it is a 10U game. In those games, I'm usually giving an extra 8"-10" on the strike zones already.

And, also... since the entire field is based on the position of the apex of home plate, wouldn't it be that home plate was indeed proper and the rest of the field was out of alignment? At least that is how I rationize the rest of the world's relationship to me.

bluezebra · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 26, 2003, 04:43pm

"In those games, I'm usually giving an extra 8"-10" on the strike zones already."

10/under with that wide a strike zone? SHAME. A Major League Baseball batter couldn't hit a ball that far outside.

Bob

coachz · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 26, 2003, 08:51pm

interesting comments

i too, coach 10u and we spend all season trying to teach the kids the strike zone. then we get into tournaments and the the zone expands up about a foot.

for some of the umps anything under the bill of the cap is a strike. i know this helps move the game when the pitchers are 10u and it works for/against both sides but it drives crazy telling the girls that the umps calling them so they better swing.

sometimes i fear i'll offend the ump if he/she hears me telling the kids to swing at the high "strike".

i guess this does help the kids learn that every ump has his own strike zone to some extent.

SC Ump · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 26, 2003, 08:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bluezebra
SHAME.

Yeah, you're right. Actually I don't think I've ever called a 10U game. I was just trying to imagine how large I would have to make it.

mick · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 26, 2003, 09:06pm

Quote:

Originally posted by SC Ump

Quote:

Originally posted by bluezebra
SHAME.

Yeah, you're right. Actually I don't think I've ever called a 10U game. I was just trying to imagine how large I would have to make it.

Thoughts for this age group:

A strike that enters the front of the zone and exits the back of the zone is rare on the local level.

A strike is likely to enter the top of the zone and exit the lower back or bottom of the zone.

If a pitched ball is "hittable", it may well be called a "strike".

A catcher is most likely going to initally touch the ball on the first bounce.

In tournament ball, the skill of the players is elevated.
mick

BigUmpJohn · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 26, 2003, 09:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by SC Ump
Yeah, you're right. Actually I don't think I've ever called a 10U game. I was just trying to imagine how large I would have to make it.

Why change it at all? I've called several 10U games. True... some of the games are walkathons, but not many. I think I've extended the zone for one game that got really out of hand vertically, but I keep the zone the same horizontally. As mick said, the level of play in tournaments is greater. I don't necessarily agree that a "hittable" pitch should be called a strike, even though some blues may call it one. If a batter has the skill to determine whether a pitch is a ball or strike, I give the benefit to the batter. As for the original topic, it is a shame that a tournament cannot find a suitable facility for their competitions. It is a far greater shame that the umpire handled the coach in such a way and couldn't carry a $3 plate brush with him. Are they $3? I don't have the merchandise catalog with me.

Just my opinions.

Dakota · #9 (**permalink**) Sun Jul 27, 2003, 07:14am

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

A strike that enters the front of the zone and exits the back of the zone is rare on the local level.

A strike is likely to enter the top of the zone and exit the lower back or bottom of the zone.
...

A catcher is most likely going to initally touch the ball on the first bounce.
[/B]

These are important points. Sometimes we talk about the little kids games as if we are expanding the zone in the normal way. While I have done only a few 10U games, I have done a lot of 12U rec ball, and the skill of the pitchers is comparable.

I sympathize with the coach who has been teaching his hitters out to have discipline at the plate, and then have to deal with "high" strikes. I have no doubt some umpires call a high zone at this level (i.e. out of the book zone, but hittable), but I would guess most are like me... calling the full zone with a arcing pitch.

Consider this: with young kids, a ball can catch the top of the zone and still be at chin level visually from the fans perspective as the batter is in her crouch.

Add this: if the pitch has any arc at all, it can enter the plate area at the eyes or higher and drop well into the zone at the rear of the plate.

Add this: with these slow pitchers, the coach will frequently put the batter forward in the batter's box. The zone stays above the plate.

Add this: with low arcing pitches, it is not at all unusual to have a low strike end in the dirt before it gets to the catcher. At this level, I have seen many, many low "in the zone" pitches actually hit the back of the plate.

IRISHMAFIA · #10 (**permalink**) Sun Jul 27, 2003, 07:15am

Quote:

Originally posted by coachz
i saw a weird one today in a girls 10u tournament game

the home plate ump cleaned the plate by tilting it up then he replaced it about 6" up the first base line.

the pitcher was having a little trouble throwing strikes and one of her coaches asked the ump between pitches if he would move the plate back to the proper position.

the umps response was to ask the coach to move to the other end of the dugout.

he actually left the plate out of position until after a play at the plate , when he cleaned the base again, and moved it to its proper location.

I've moved a plate before, but that is because it had moved out of position through the players stepping on it. Are you sure he didn't actually move it back into proper position?

I know this was 10U, but shouldn't the pitcher be taught to throw to the glove, not the plate?

And last, but not at all the least part of my personal opinion as many on this board know, is that 10U may a bit early in the learning stages to be playing in tournaments or for championships.

[Edited by IRISHMAFIA on Jul 28th, 2003 at 03:27 PM]

coachz · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 28, 2003, 12:14pm

the FUNNY thing was that the chalk lines were still intact and you could clearly see that the plate was off(I was about 10 feet away behind the backstop).

just to clarify, on the subject of the high strikes, our girls stand way back in the box because they aren't used to the pitching we saw in these tournaments(it's just a rec league all-star team) and these girls are throwing HARD.It's definitely not like slow pitch wher the ball arcs through the zone.

i was amazed at the skills of some of the pitchers! i felt for the umps too because alot of the catchers were not up to stopping a lot of the pitches.

Dakota · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 28, 2003, 02:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by coachz
just to clarify, on the subject of the high strikes, our girls stand way back in the box

Just remember, coach, the zone stays above the plate. If the pitcher was throwing a rise, then it could appear high from where your batters were but still be in the zone over the plate.

I know from the comments I hear that neither fans nor many coaches remember that the zone does not move with the batter.

kono · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 29, 2003, 06:56am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by coachz
just to clarify, on the subject of the high strikes, our girls stand way back in the box because they aren't used to the pitching we saw in these tournaments(it's just a rec league all-star team) and these girls are throwing HARD.

Dakota's right - strike/ball are determined by the location of the ball when it crossed the plate, not where your batter is standing. Also, within a couple of years, these same pitchers are going to be throwing pitches with a lot of movement on them. Your batters in the back of the box won't stand a chance on pitches that break on/before the plate.

It's definitely not like slow pitch where the ball arcs through the zone.

I see way too many of these in LL fastpitch games.

I was amazed at the skills of some of the pitchers! I felt for the umps too because alot of the catchers were not up to stopping a lot of the pitches.

That's why we have shin guards, chest protectors, face masks, and plate shoes. Any plate umpire at any level of fastpitch without this gear doesn't need sympathy - he/she needs a shrink.

-Kono

BigUmpJohn · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 29, 2003, 03:15pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Kono
That's why we have shin guards, chest protectors, face masks, and plate shoes. Any plate umpire at any level of fastpitch without this gear doesn't need sympathy - he/she needs a shrink!!

Don't forget the good old yoohoo protector for the males!

Knock on wood that I don't ever forget mine!