Need Help On Rule

[cal9323]

Guy on first base.
Batter hits ball up the middle.

Runner is rounding third. Batter is rounding second.
The defensive player in outfield slid to get ball and kicked it under the fence.
(probably wouldn't have made it to fence if not batted).

Where do the runners go?

[DeputyUICHousto]

Originally Posted by cal9323

Guy on first base.
Batter hits ball up the middle.

Runner is rounding third. Batter is rounding second.
The defensive player in outfield slid to get ball and kicked it under the fence.
(probably wouldn't have made it to fence if not batted).

Where do the runners go?

Ground rule double. Runners at 2nd and 3rd

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

Ground rule double. Runners at 2nd and 3rd

On a batted ball touched in fair ground by a fielder??

[cal9323]

DeputyUICHousto:
So you are saying a player can intentionally kick a ball under the fence when they know darn well that person would get a homer out of it and force them into a ground rule double? That doesn't make sense.


Just found this though:
8-5-G EXCEPTION-1
When a fielder loses possession of the ball, and the ball leaves live ball territory or becomes blocked.
EFFECT: Each runner is awarded one base from the last base touched at the time the ball entered the dead ball area or became blocked.

[okla21fan]

Keyword on this OP and making the award is 'possession' (or not)

[cal9323]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

Keyword on this OP and making the award is 'possession' (or not)

so what's the ruling? He didn't have "possession" but it is pretty obvious that without him kicking the ball under the fence, everyone would have made it easily.

So if I don't have "possession" ... I can just kick balls that get past me under the fence to force them into ground rule doubles?

?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by cal9323

DeputyUICHousto:
So you are saying a player can intentionally kick a ball under the fence when they know darn well that person would get a homer out of it and force them into a ground rule double? That doesn't make sense.


Just found this though:
8-5-G EXCEPTION-1
When a fielder loses possession of the ball, and the ball leaves live ball territory or becomes blocked.
EFFECT: Each runner is awarded one base from the last base touched at the time the ball entered the dead ball area or became blocked.

Two problems with your response here.

1) Your original post doesn't say, suggest, or even imply that the player intentionally kicked the ball. The answer you got is the rule for the play you posed. If you want a ruling on a ball intentionally taken to dead ball territory, you need to ask THAT question.

2) The rule you cite has even less to do with this play than your now changing the play. The fielder you described never had possession, and therefore cannot lose possession.

Try again which rule you want to apply to which play.

The original play is 8.5-I(2),EFFECT.

Your intentional scenario is 8.5-K, EFFECT

8.5-G has nothing to do with either.

[cal9323]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Two problems with your response here.

1) Your original post doesn't say, suggest, or even imply that the player intentionally kicked the ball. The answer you got is the rule for the play you posed. If you want a ruling on a ball intentionally taken to dead ball territory, you need to ask THAT question.

2) The rule you cite has even less to do with this play than your now changing the play. The fielder you described never had possession, and therefore cannot lose possession.

Try again which rule you want to apply to which play.

The original play is 8.5-I(2),EFFECT.

Your intentional scenario is 8.5-K, EFFECT

8.5-G has nothing to do with either.

Just trying to find the correct answer.
It is not known if he "intentionally" batted it (only he would know that).

All players would have scored easily if it was not for him batting the ball.

I guess from now on, when a ball gets past me, I will just slide and "accidentally" kick the ball under the fence. lol

[DeputyUICHousto]

Originally Posted by cal9323

Just trying to find the correct answer.
It is not known if he "intentionally" batted it (only he would know that).

All players would have scored easily if it was not for him batting the ball.

I guess from now on, when a ball gets past me, I will just slide and "accidentally" kick the ball under the fence. lol

Do you believe the ball was intentionally kicked under the fence? Or did the defender make an attempt to field the ball and the ball hit his leg/foot and went under the fence?

Unless the umpire deemed it to be an intentional act then the only ruling you can make is a ground rule double. And since none of us were there we can only use the information available...sorry that you don't like the answer.

[DeputyUICHousto]

Why?

The original post doesn't say the ball was intentionally kicked under the fence. The original post doesn't say the defender had possession of the ball.

What would you rule?

What happens if the right fielder is chasing a fly ball down the right field line in fair territory and while the ball is over fair territory it hits the end of his glove and goes under the fence? I see these two plays as the same call.

Ground Rule Double!

[cal9323]

Well, like I said ... I guess when a ball gets past me, I will just slide and "accidentally" kick the ball under the fence.

I am not an official ... that is why I am asking.

Seems to me, that you should get 1 extra base from last touched bag when the ball was obstructed with. Seems like an odd ruling.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

Ground rule double. Runners at 2nd and 3rd

That is not a ground rule. It is a book rule.
And it depends whether you feel it was intentional or not. If not intentional, 2 bases for all from time of pitch. If intentional, then 2 bases from time of intentional "kick".

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Steve M

That is not a ground rule. It is a book rule...

Except that the book calls it a ground rule!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by cal9323

Guy on first base.
Batter hits ball up the middle.

Runner is rounding third. Batter is rounding second.
The defensive player in outfield slid to get ball and kicked it under the fence.
(probably wouldn't have made it to fence if not batted).

Where do the runners go?

It depends. If the impetus which caused the ball to leave playable territory was that of the batted ball deflecting off the player, it is a GRD, as previously noted.

If the player's kick was the impetus which propelled the ball out of play, it is two bases from the runners' location at the time of the kick.

July 2009 ASA Rules Clarifications:

PLAY: With no outs and R1 on 2B, B2 hits a line drive to F7. R1 is off on the hit and headed toward 3B when F7 misses the sinking line drive and knocks the ball forward on the ground in front of him. While running in and trying to scoop up the ball, F7 kicks the ball into the 3B dugout. When the ball entered the 3B dugout, R1 is two steps from 3B and B2 is not yet to 1B. Which bases should R1 and B2 be awarded?

RULING: R1 is awarded home and B2 is awarded 2B. The ball being kicked into dead ball territory would be treated the same as if F7 threw the ball into dead ball territory. Each runner would be awarded two bases from the time the ball left F7’s foot. (Rule 8, Section 5G)

[cal9323]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

If the player's kick was the impetus which propelled the ball out of play, it is two bases from the runners' location at the time of the kick.

^ it was ... his kick knocked it out of play. The ball was essentially stopped when he slid after it. When he slid, he booted it under the fence "propelling the ball out of play"