Need Help On Rule

[cal9323]

Guy on first base.
Batter hits ball up the middle.

Runner is rounding third. Batter is rounding second.
The defensive player in outfield slid to get ball and kicked it under the fence.
(probably wouldn't have made it to fence if not batted).

Where do the runners go?

[DeputyUICHousto]

Originally Posted by cal9323

Guy on first base.
Batter hits ball up the middle.

Runner is rounding third. Batter is rounding second.
The defensive player in outfield slid to get ball and kicked it under the fence.
(probably wouldn't have made it to fence if not batted).

Where do the runners go?

Ground rule double. Runners at 2nd and 3rd

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

Ground rule double. Runners at 2nd and 3rd

On a batted ball touched in fair ground by a fielder??

[cal9323]

DeputyUICHousto:
So you are saying a player can intentionally kick a ball under the fence when they know darn well that person would get a homer out of it and force them into a ground rule double? That doesn't make sense.


Just found this though:
8-5-G EXCEPTION-1
When a fielder loses possession of the ball, and the ball leaves live ball territory or becomes blocked.
EFFECT: Each runner is awarded one base from the last base touched at the time the ball entered the dead ball area or became blocked.

[okla21fan]

Keyword on this OP and making the award is 'possession' (or not)

[cal9323]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

Keyword on this OP and making the award is 'possession' (or not)

so what's the ruling? He didn't have "possession" but it is pretty obvious that without him kicking the ball under the fence, everyone would have made it easily.

So if I don't have "possession" ... I can just kick balls that get past me under the fence to force them into ground rule doubles?

?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by cal9323

DeputyUICHousto:
So you are saying a player can intentionally kick a ball under the fence when they know darn well that person would get a homer out of it and force them into a ground rule double? That doesn't make sense.


Just found this though:
8-5-G EXCEPTION-1
When a fielder loses possession of the ball, and the ball leaves live ball territory or becomes blocked.
EFFECT: Each runner is awarded one base from the last base touched at the time the ball entered the dead ball area or became blocked.

Two problems with your response here.

1) Your original post doesn't say, suggest, or even imply that the player intentionally kicked the ball. The answer you got is the rule for the play you posed. If you want a ruling on a ball intentionally taken to dead ball territory, you need to ask THAT question.

2) The rule you cite has even less to do with this play than your now changing the play. The fielder you described never had possession, and therefore cannot lose possession.

Try again which rule you want to apply to which play.

The original play is 8.5-I(2),EFFECT.

Your intentional scenario is 8.5-K, EFFECT

8.5-G has nothing to do with either.

[cal9323]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Two problems with your response here.

1) Your original post doesn't say, suggest, or even imply that the player intentionally kicked the ball. The answer you got is the rule for the play you posed. If you want a ruling on a ball intentionally taken to dead ball territory, you need to ask THAT question.

2) The rule you cite has even less to do with this play than your now changing the play. The fielder you described never had possession, and therefore cannot lose possession.

Try again which rule you want to apply to which play.

The original play is 8.5-I(2),EFFECT.

Your intentional scenario is 8.5-K, EFFECT

8.5-G has nothing to do with either.

Just trying to find the correct answer.
It is not known if he "intentionally" batted it (only he would know that).

All players would have scored easily if it was not for him batting the ball.

I guess from now on, when a ball gets past me, I will just slide and "accidentally" kick the ball under the fence. lol

[DeputyUICHousto]

Why?

The original post doesn't say the ball was intentionally kicked under the fence. The original post doesn't say the defender had possession of the ball.

What would you rule?

What happens if the right fielder is chasing a fly ball down the right field line in fair territory and while the ball is over fair territory it hits the end of his glove and goes under the fence? I see these two plays as the same call.

Ground Rule Double!

[DeputyUICHousto]

Originally Posted by cal9323

Just trying to find the correct answer.
It is not known if he "intentionally" batted it (only he would know that).

All players would have scored easily if it was not for him batting the ball.

I guess from now on, when a ball gets past me, I will just slide and "accidentally" kick the ball under the fence. lol

Do you believe the ball was intentionally kicked under the fence? Or did the defender make an attempt to field the ball and the ball hit his leg/foot and went under the fence?

Unless the umpire deemed it to be an intentional act then the only ruling you can make is a ground rule double. And since none of us were there we can only use the information available...sorry that you don't like the answer.

[cal9323]

Well, like I said ... I guess when a ball gets past me, I will just slide and "accidentally" kick the ball under the fence.

I am not an official ... that is why I am asking.

Seems to me, that you should get 1 extra base from last touched bag when the ball was obstructed with. Seems like an odd ruling.

[DeputyUICHousto]

Originally Posted by cal9323

Well, like I said ... I guess when a ball gets past me, I will just slide and "accidentally" kick the ball under the fence.

I am not an official ... that is why I am asking.

Seems to me, that you should get 1 extra base from last touched bag when the ball was obstructed with. Seems like an odd ruling.

Did the defender intentionally kick the ball under the fence in your judgment? Or, was he attempting to field the ball and muffed it and the ball hit him and went under the fence?

In your honest opinion which way did you see this play happen?

[cal9323]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

Did the defender intentionally kick the ball under the fence in your judgment? Or, was he attempting to field the ball and muffed it and the ball hit him and went under the fence?

In your honest opinion which way did you see this play happen?

In all honesty ... it was a close call. Just not sure why he would slide to get the ball in the first place. That is what made it look odd.

Like I said, runner was rounding third at the time. The runner scored when his hands when up (for the ground rule double).

Just seemed shady to me.

[cal9323]

I can tell you 100% that if he did not touch the ball there is NO WAY that ball would have gone under the fence.

[DeputyUICHousto]

Originally Posted by cal9323

I can tell you 100% that if he did not touch the ball there is NO WAY that ball would have gone under the fence.

Let me give you scenario:

Bases loaded with two outs. A right handed batter hits a smash down the first base line. The fair batted ball bounces up and hits the first baseman on the shoulder and bounces over the dugout. Regardless of the fact that the ball hit the defender or the defender touched the ball this is a ground rule double.

Anytime a fair batted ball goes in to dead ball territory under its own momentum and as long as the act was not intentional you have a ground rule double. The exception to this would be if a fair batted fly ball goes off of a defender glove and over the home run fence fair you would have a four base error which would not count against the home run count.

From the way I read the OP this is pretty much the same play I described at the top of this post.