Catcher's Obstruction: Killed too Soon? Options?

[Manny A]

18U rec game, and I'm solo. Bases loaded, no outs. Batter hits a grounder to F3 playing in, and I clearly hear the bat hit the catcher's glove as well. I signal the delayed-dead ball. Rather than going home with it (it IS rec ball), F3 moves over and applies a tag on the BR.

As soon as the tag is made, I kill play and award the BR first base. That brings out the defensive coach, who wants to know why. I explain the situation to him, letting him know that technically, I should have called time and then give the offensive coach the option of accepting the penalty or the play. But I went ahead and applied the penalty since it was a no-brainer on what the offensive coach would choose.

The offensive coach heard the discussion, and wanted further clarification on the options (so much for being a no-brainer...) So I explained the options--the play (batter is out on the tag, but the runners advance) or the penalty (batter is awarded first, all forced runners advance)--and he went with my call.

Between innings, I thought more about the play. After F3 tagged the BR, she was about to throw home to make a play on R1 coming from third. Should I have allowed play to continue til the end, since there was the possibility of an errant throw? Or did I kill it appropriately since the BR was put out, and she was the offended player? And should I have not made the call and gone ahead to explain the options to the offensive coach?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Manny A

18U rec game, and I'm solo. Bases loaded, no outs. Batter hits a grounder to F3 playing in, and I clearly hear the bat hit the catcher's glove as well. I signal the delayed-dead ball. Rather than going home with it (it IS rec ball), F3 moves over and applies a tag on the BR.

As soon as the tag is made, I kill play and award the BR first base. That brings out the defensive coach, who wants to know why. I explain the situation to him, letting him know that technically, I should have called time and then give the offensive coach the option of accepting the penalty or the play. But I went ahead and applied the penalty since it was a no-brainer on what the offensive coach would choose.

The offensive coach heard the discussion, and wanted further clarification on the options (so much for being a no-brainer...) So I explained the options--the play (batter is out on the tag, but the runners advance) or the penalty (batter is awarded first, all forced runners advance)--and he went with my call.

Between innings, I thought more about the play. After F3 tagged the BR, she was about to throw home to make a play on R1 coming from third. Should I have allowed play to continue til the end, since there was the possibility of an errant throw? Or did I kill it appropriately since the BR was put out, and she was the offended player? And should I have not made the call and gone ahead to explain the options to the offensive coach?

I think the DDB idea is to let the entire play finish.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I think the DDB idea is to let the entire play finish.

^^^ This. You really cannot offer the coach the result of the play or the penalty for the violation if the play isn't allowed to come to a resolution.

[Andy]

Yes, you should have waited for the entire play to finish.

If the B/R reaches first base and any other runners advance at least one base, drop the DDB and play on. If those conditions are not met, that is when you call time and explaing the available options to the offensive coach.

Your reasoning is correct, an errant throw to home could have allowed another run to score and the offensive coach may be willing to trade an out for multiple runs.

Don't ever assume anything is a "no-brainer" with coaches....my CO story:

NFHS Rules, R1 on first, no outs.

B2 swings, bat hits F2's glove, ball is hit to F4 who fields and throws to first for the out on B2, R1 advances to second. I call time and call for the offense head coach. I tell her that I have CO, she has the option of accepting the penalty or the result of the play. She thinks for a second and says, "I wil just take the play." OK, coach...here we go.

She comes out between innings little while later and says to me...."Should I have taken the penalty on that? What is the penalty?" So I explained it to her and she tells me "Thanks, I guess I just learned something."

Looking back, I probably should have explained what the penalty was and how the options would have affected her team, but we had just had a big session on not "coaching" the players or coaches, so that was my mindset at the time.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

Looking back, I probably should have explained what the penalty was and how the options would have affected her team, but we had just had a big session on not "coaching" the players or coaches, so that was my mindset at the time.

Wouldn't mention it unless asked. After all, you don't want to insult a coach's intelligence by insinuating they don't know the rules, do ya?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I think the DDB idea is to let the entire play finish.

Well, I obviously thought it was a DDB because the batter put the ball into play, and you wouldn't kill it immediately. But I also thought Catcher's Obstruction was supposed to be treated like any other obstruction where, once the offended player is put out, that's when you call Time and present the options to the coach.

Lesson learned...

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Well, I obviously thought it was a DDB because the batter put the ball into play, and you wouldn't kill it immediately. But I also thought Catcher's Obstruction was supposed to be treated like any other obstruction where, once the offended player is put out, that's when you call Time and present the options to the coach.

Lesson learned...

Well, actually... in "other" obstruction, you don't present options - you simply make the award(s).

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Well, actually... in "other" obstruction, you don't present options - you simply make the award(s).

No, I understand that, Mike.

The point I was trying to make was that with all other obstruction situations involving runners, you kill play when the obstructed runner is put out before reaching the base he/she would have reached minus the obstruction. I thought the same thing applied to batters after catcher's obstruction when they don't reach first base. If it is supposed to be treated differently, then I stand corrected.

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by Manny A

No, I understand that, Mike.

The point I was trying to make was that with all other obstruction situations involving runners, you kill play when the obstructed runner is put out before reaching the base he/she would have reached minus the obstruction. I thought the same thing applied to batters after catcher's obstruction when they don't reach first base. If it is supposed to be treated differently, then I stand corrected.

Not to be piling on, but treat the CO delayed dead ball as you would an IP delayed dead ball. Let things play out.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

^^^ This. You really cannot offer the coach the result of the play or the penalty for the violation if the play isn't allowed to come to a resolution.

I thought I mastered all the acronyms, symbols and emoticons; but what is the significance of the triple caret?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I thought I mastered all the acronyms, symbols and emoticons; but what is the significance of the triple caret?

It's like an arrow, pointing to the previous comment.

[DeputyUICHousto]

Manny,

What if the would have been the winning run. If you kill the play and have to put the runners back that could be trouble. With my luck the next batter would hit into a triple play.