Missing Player in Lineup

[IRISHMAFIA]

ASA Umpire Manual Pre-Game

D. PU receives line-up cards from each coach
1. Inspects for proper number of players in the starting line-up
2. Inspects for proper information, by rule
3. Returns card to respective coach for final check
4. Accepts as "official" when cards are returned to the plate umpire.

This is the ASA prescribed procedure for handling the line-up cards. If you have not seen this in a clinic, you need to bring it to the attention of the UIC/trainer.

Once the card is confirmed by the coach, it is THE official line-up and any alterations to it from that moment forward is considered a change, whether sub, re-entry, CR, DP/FLEX manuever, whatever.

At this point, that part of the pre-game is done. I understand other associations expect you to continue further, but IMO, it is not the umpire's responsibility, nor place on the field, to prompt/cue/coach the coach.

I understand preventive umpiring, and asking for a sub/change when something occurs in the which dictates such action is fine. However, in the pre-game, nothing has occurred which would make me believe a change is imminent.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by Rita C

I do all that. So what we are doing is defining "changes".

My point is, if we've just talked about if the lineups are correct, and they've had a chance to correct anything, why would they want to make changes?



Rita

Rita,
It is entirely possible that a coach has inadvertantly handed you an illegal lineup card. Before accepting the lineup card as official, we want them to correct it. It's part of the plate umpire's job to make sure that the lineup card is legal - even to the point of not accepting it when something is illegal.
Correcting that/those issues is not making a change.
Making a change means that somebody has entered/left the game or somebody has changed defensive position.

[CecilOne]

Can anyone get the lineup card printers to head the right hand column as "CHANGES" instead of "Substitutes",
with a "Substitutes" heading at the bottom?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Can anyone get the lineup card printers to head the right hand column as "CHANGES" instead of "Substitutes",
with a "Substitutes" heading at the bottom?

You have my vote on that!

I've always scratched my head on that.
Can't really blam a coach for filling in a column marked "Substitutes" with a list of his substitutes!!!

At one time during a rec game,I mentioned to coaches at the plate meeting that, it would be much easier for us (me, anyway), if they left that column blank and lited the subs at the bottom of the sheet.
I also emphasised that they had done nothing wrong, it just is easier to track changes with that column open.

As soon as the game was open, my partner chastised me saying
1) they could do what ever they wanted
and
2) It IS preferable to have subslisted in the "Substitute" column (even though the row they were listed on had nothing to do with the order that they eventially came in to play...

I never could understand point, 2), but now I don't talk about it - I just deal with it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Can anyone get the lineup card printers to head the right hand column as "CHANGES" instead of "Substitutes",
with a "Substitutes" heading at the bottom?

And just who are those "line-up card" printers? Are you suggesting that the respective sanctioning body now create rule dictating the format in which a line-up card is to be printed?

I really don't see the issue. The only time I've seen someone screw this up it has been SP guys using a preprinted line-up card. And it is more a lack of common sense than anything else, even with the FP folks.

Most FP teams, have their own line-up sheet/card, so unless YOU are going to provide them, I don't see how you are going to get what you are seeking, but I don't think it is necessary.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And just who are those "line-up card" printers? Are you suggesting that the respective sanctioning body now create rule dictating the format in which a line-up card is to be printed?

I really don't see the issue. The only time I've seen someone screw this up it has been SP guys using a preprinted line-up card. And it is more a lack of common sense than anything else, even with the FP folks.

Most FP teams, have their own line-up sheet/card, so unless YOU are going to provide them, I don't see how you are going to get what you are seeking, but I don't think it is necessary.

You are right - Not necessary / not something we have control over- just something that makes my life easier(the way I manage my card).

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by Steve M

Rita,
It is entirely possible that a coach has inadvertantly handed you an illegal lineup card. Before accepting the lineup card as official, we want them to correct it. It's part of the plate umpire's job to make sure that the lineup card is legal - even to the point of not accepting it when something is illegal.
Correcting that/those issues is not making a change.
Making a change means that somebody has entered/left the game or somebody has changed defensive position.

Hugo and I talked yesterday, and he gave me a possibility that hadn't occurred to me and hasn't yet happened.

So I get the lineup cards and check that everything is correct, making any necessary changes. Then when I get it back, it becomes official.

What I hadn't considered is the coach who wants to keep the option of DP/Flex but doesn't want to use it right away. After the lineups are official he could, theoretically, immediately reduce his lineup to nine and still have the option of DP/Flex later in the game.

THAT was the answer to my question.

Rita

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And just who are those "line-up card" printers? Are you suggesting that the respective sanctioning body now create rule dictating the format in which a line-up card is to be printed?

I really don't see the issue. The only time I've seen someone screw this up it has been SP guys using a preprinted line-up card. And it is more a lack of common sense than anything else, even with the FP folks.

Most FP teams, have their own line-up sheet/card, so unless YOU are going to provide them, I don't see how you are going to get what you are seeking, but I don't think it is necessary.

Come on Mike, like lots of things that will never happen, lightening up the thread with day dreaming. Sorry I used the wrong emoticon.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Come on Mike, like lots of things that will never happen, lightening up the thread with day dreaming. Sorry I used the wrong emoticon.

Then you may be disappointed we have decided to go to the ASA line-up cards in the future.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by Rita C

Hugo and I talked yesterday, and he gave me a possibility that hadn't occurred to me and hasn't yet happened.

So I get the lineup cards and check that everything is correct, making any necessary changes. Then when I get it back, it becomes official.

What I hadn't considered is the coach who wants to keep the option of DP/Flex but doesn't want to use it right away. After the lineups are official he could, theoretically, immediately reduce his lineup to nine and still have the option of DP/Flex later in the game.

THAT was the answer to my question.

Rita

Rita,
I did not recognize that was what you were asking about - sorry - it would have made answers earier to be more clearly understood.

[ronald]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Actually, no, it doesn't. Begging the Question, Again

Actually, Mannys use is now acceptable.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by ronald

Actually, Mannys use is now acceptable.

Common does not equate to acceptable.