Glove: Legal or Illegal?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I am posting this on both the Baseball and Softball Forums because it is a situation that can happen in both baseball and fastpitch softball, and would like opinions per NFHS, NCAA, OBR/MLB, ASA, and USSSA. I will try to describe the situation as best I can; I just wish I had a picture of the glove because it would be worth a thousand words.

Point of Information: I assume that everybody know what a plastic zip tie is because that is the central issue of this thread. Picture the free end of the zip tie pushed throught the female end thereby completing the tie. The free end is then cut off about 1/8th of an inch past the female end of the zip tie. I think that everybody knows that as designed the zip tie is quite flexible, when it is cut so close the the locking portion of the zip tie, the edges of the tie are quite sharp.

Yesterday after MTD, Jr.'s and my last game in an ASA girls' fastpitch tournament I noticed that one of the player's gloves, rather than using leather laces to keep the glove's fingers to together, she used three zip ties instead. The female ends of the zip ties were on the outside of the glove's fingers and the male end of the zip tie was cut off about 1/8 of an inch past the female part of the zip tie.

My question is: Is this glove legal? And is it safe? The outside of the glove's fingers is the side of the glove that tags the runner about 99.999,999% of the time and if it came in contact with a runner's arm or face in a sweeping motion the sharp edges of the plastic could scratch or cut the runner.

What say you everybody?

MTD, Sr.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Speaking ASA

Don't understand why this would even be questioned. Somebody must be looking for an excuse for something.

Other than color and size, there are no restrictions on a glove or mitt.

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

Don't understand why this would even be questioned. Somebody must be looking for an excuse for something.

Other than color and size, there are no restrictions on a glove or mitt.

Agree. Rule 3.4 doesn't specify that the glove/mitt must be made of leather and bound with leather. Thus, plastic gloves are OK. (ugh!)

Rhetorical question: would you allow the glove/mitt if it was bound with bailing wire? 3.5.F Warning: The game of softball involves certain risk, including but not limited to death, [etc.] No problem there, fair warning given.

How about this?: 3.7 Note: The characteristics of any approved equipment cannot be unnaturally changed. The drawback is that we won't find any gloves/mitts on an approved equipment list.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob

Agree. Rule 3.4 doesn't specify that the glove/mitt must be made of leather and bound with leather. Thus, plastic gloves are OK. (ugh!)

Rhetorical question: would you allow the glove/mitt if it was bound with bailing wire? 3.5.F Warning: The game of softball involves certain risk, including but not limited to death, [etc.] No problem there, fair warning given.

How about this?: 3.7 Note: The characteristics of any approved equipment cannot be unnaturally changed. The drawback is that we won't find any gloves/mitts on an approved equipment list.

You don't need a list to spell out every approved item for you.

If an umpire disallows the glove and justifies it by saying that he believes it poses an unnecessary new and unanticipated safety risk, the team has the opportunity to protest. How would you handle it has the UIC on the field? Deny the protest based on safety or uphold it against umpire discretion?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob

Agree. Rule 3.4 doesn't specify that the glove/mitt must be made of leather and bound with leather. Thus, plastic gloves are OK. (ugh!)

Rhetorical question: would you allow the glove/mitt if it was bound with bailing wire? 3.5.F Warning: The game of softball involves certain risk, including but not limited to death, [etc.] No problem there, fair warning given.

How about this?: 3.7 Note: The characteristics of any approved equipment cannot be unnaturally changed. The drawback is that we won't find any gloves/mitts on an approved equipment list.

Okay, I was addressing the plastic ties and only the plastic ties. But I still would not make a wholesale decision without actually holding the glove.

Even then, on what basis would I have in disallowing the glove? And I'm sure you are going to be informed this glove has been allowed in hundreds of games.

Considering the whipping action or just the distance of the protrusion, should players be required to trim the long extra pieces of leather lacing from the glove?

Let's talk about comparable situations. Should we ban sliding feet first on tags plays? After all the metal or poly spikes can be quite sharp.

All that said, yeah, if I thought the glove was a danger, I would probably have a discussion with the coach to see if s/he can adjust the glove to eliminate any safety issue there may be.

[Robmoz]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Okay, I was addressing the plastic ties and only the plastic ties. But I still would not make a wholesale decision without actually holding the glove.

Even then, on what basis would I have in disallowing the glove? And I'm sure you are going to be informed this glove has been allowed in hundreds of games.

Considering the whipping action or just the distance of the protrusion, should players be required to trim the long extra pieces of leather lacing from the glove?

Let's talk about comparable situations. Should we ban sliding feet first on tags plays? After all the metal or poly spikes can be quite sharp.

All that said, yeah, if I thought the glove was a danger, I would probably have a discussion with the coach to see if s/he can adjust the glove to eliminate any safety issue there may be.

May be an old post, but yesterday...I had a player use a glove with the leather laces extending about 12 inches on all fingers like tentacles. Other than looking ridiculous I was wondering IF it posed a safety risk that needed my attention or not? Any thoughts?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Robmoz

May be an old post, but yesterday...I had a player use a glove with the leather laces extending about 12 inches on all fingers like tentacles. Other than looking ridiculous I was wondering IF it posed a safety risk that needed my attention or not? Any thoughts?

The ONLY issue I've ever heard when it comes to long leather laces is that they may pose a distraction when the pitcher has them. And that was in a LL Baseball game in my son's old local league, and it was done by a coach who looked for any excuse to get under the opposing team's skin.

As for it being a safety issue, I don't see how that's really a problem.

I suppose one could argue that 12-inch-long laces could give the defense an advantage when it came to tagging a runner. If on a swipe tag the fielder contacted the runner only with the laces while the ball was in the glove, would that be a legal tag? We do say a tag of a runner's ponytail constitutes a legal tag; how about when it comes to the glove? Hmmmmm...

[Umpteenth]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Picture the free end of the zip tie pushed through the female end thereby completing the tie. The free end is then cut off about 1/8th of an inch past the female end of the zip tie. I think that everybody knows that as designed the zip tie is quite flexible, when it is cut so close the the locking portion of the zip tie, the edges of the tie are quite sharp.

Yesterday after MTD, Jr.'s and my last game in an ASA girls' fastpitch tournament I noticed that one of the player's gloves, rather than using leather laces to keep the glove's fingers to together, she used three zip ties instead. The female ends of the zip ties were on the outside of the glove's fingers and the male end of the zip tie was cut off about 1/8 of an inch past the female part of the zip tie.

My question is: Is this glove legal? And is it safe? The outside of the glove's fingers is the side of the glove that tags the runner about 99.999,999% of the time and if it came in contact with a runner's arm or face in a sweeping motion the sharp edges of the plastic could scratch or cut the runner.

What say you everybody?

MTD, Sr.

I've worked with and around these plastic tie-wraps for 20 years, and I can tell you that a 1/8-inch tail is very sharp and can be quite dangerous. I have seen arm wounds that require stitches. In my field, these injuries are caused when someone reaches into an equipment cabinet and is cut by the extended tail. I shudder to think what might happen from a swipe tag against bare skin.

The glove may be legal, but if I were to see it, I would ask for the tie-wraps to be flush cut before I would allow it to be used.

[RadioBlue]

Sometimes, you gotta umpire. We're out there to protect the integrity of the game and the safety of the participants. I would have no problem with an umpire who deems this glove dangerous and bans it from the game. In fact, I just might be one of those umpires. If I can avoid being dragged into court, I will. If the team protests and the UIC gets involved, so be it. Then it's on him/her and not me.