ISF Mechanic

[Andy]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

....A couple of years ago, we were instructed that P gets 20 seconds and we are to give her every bit of that, unless B is in some sort of distress.

Tony....a question for you....Were you specifically instructed to do so in your ASA training?

This was a big deal in NCAA, but in all of our NFHS and ASA training, it was not delivered as a directive. I know that there are a lot of NCAA umpires in high positions in ASA and HS organizations and some tend to think that if something is good enough for NCAA, it must be good enough for HS and ASA as well.

[tcannizzo]

Andy,
Since I don't do college, only ASA/NFHS, it would have been in my local training. At least the way I understood it to be.

I know that I definitely do not grant time like I used to.
Batter wants time after 3 or 4 seconds, I just respond, "No, Play", and sometimes have to repeat, "No, Play".

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Andy

Tony....a question for you....Were you specifically instructed to do so in your ASA training?

This was a big deal in NCAA, but in all of our NFHS and ASA training, it was not delivered as a directive. I know that there are a lot of NCAA umpires in high positions in ASA and HS organizations and some tend to think that if something is good enough for NCAA, it must be good enough for HS and ASA as well.

Andy, do you not recall the NFHS Points of Emphasis in recent years, dealing with the need to manage the pace of the game, and specifically stating "Umpires should NOT routinely grant time to batters"?

[outathm]

I do not grant the time, because of the NCAA mechanic emphasis. I say "we're playing" vs "no". No is usually followed by No pitch in this situation and could confuse a batter.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by outathm

I do not grant the time, because of the NCAA mechanic emphasis. I say "we're playing" vs "no". No is usually followed by No pitch in this situation and could confuse a batter.

My verbal is, "No, the ball is live." Works quite well.

[tcannizzo]

ASA State 16A.
I am PU.
B holds hand up but I simply said, "No, Play"
B steps out of box, P starts delivery, B steps back in box.
I called "Strike" before P could release ball.
Next pitch B gets retired on a ground ball for the 3rd out of the inning.

3B coach on way to 1B dugout says, "She is deaf in one ear". (Right ear, RHB)
GOOD GRIEF, for a moment I felt like a criminal.
But I told coach, then she better take a peek back. Even players with 20-20 hearing should not just assume that the PU is holding up P.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Andy

Tony....a question for you....Were you specifically instructed to do so in your ASA training?

This was a big deal in NCAA, but in all of our NFHS and ASA training, it was not delivered as a directive. I know that there are a lot of NCAA umpires in high positions in ASA and HS organizations and some tend to think that if something is good enough for NCAA, it must be good enough for HS and ASA as well.

This was hit upon in our first ASA clinics of each of the past 2 years, as well as this year's NFHS clinic. If batter is just calling time because they are tired of waiting, they don't get time. I believe I had 5 or 6 conversations this year alone with coaches explaining that after they kept telling their players, "If she's taking too long, step out".

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by SRW

My verbal is, "No, the ball is live." Works quite well.

Which is the exact phrase I remeber being taught the first time I heard this (at an NCAA Clinic)

[Andy]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

This was hit upon in our first ASA clinics of each of the past 2 years, as well as this year's NFHS clinic. If batter is just calling time because they are tired of waiting, they don't get time. I believe I had 5 or 6 conversations this year alone with coaches explaining that after they kept telling their players, "If she's taking too long, step out".

Mike....Steve provided the NFHS POE, which I either forgot about or missed....

Has ASA ever put this directive out in writing somewhere? If so, I don't recall it.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Andy

Mike....Steve provided the NFHS POE, which I either forgot about or missed....

Has ASA ever put this directive out in writing somewhere? If so, I don't recall it.

Not that I recall... but then again, the way the rules are worded, did they really need one?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Not that I recall... but then again, the way the rules are worded, did they really need one?

And that is the point. I recall this being a topic of proposed rule change, and the NUS position being that it was unnecessary to present a rule "change" when no rule even suggested that time be granted anytime a batter asks. Game management hardly suggests that granting time will speed up anything!!

[rant on]
The rules say the pitcher has 20 seconds from receiving the ball to release a next pitch. ASA 6.3.O, NFHS 6-2-3. The batter has 10 seconds to take a position in the batter's box. ASA 7.3.C, NFHS 7-3-1. Wouldn't it stand to reason that the batter is expected to wait that difference in time? And that the rules makers and rules committees believe that is a reasonable amount of time for a batter to wait?

If the pitcher is completely within the allotted time, where does it say in any rulebook or manual that the batter can get "time" until the pitcher pitches when the batter wants? If the pitcher violates, call the violation; if the pitcher is within the allotted time, "keep playing". Batters easily adjust to NOT tensing before the pitcher is ready to pitch, just keep it consistent and fair to both sides, no advantage, no disadvantage, just what the rules say and allow.

Can (may) the PU grant time? Sure; if there is a good reason. The batter not wanting to wait that long isn't a good reason; how long is too long? According to the rules, 20 seconds is too long, regardless how long the batter, coach, or parents think is too long. And the batter attempting to control the pitcher is even worse. You are expected to control the pace of the game, using the rules, and the purpose of the rules.

Reverse logic alert!! Being told an umpire "MAY NOT" grant time if the pitcher's hands are together or after a pitcher begins the pitching motion DOES NOT MEAN you can or should grant time any time prior to that point; it means you COULD if there is a good reason to. Bugs flying around her, sweat dripping in her eyes; they are good reasons. In just about every other circumstance, "keep playing".

In my opinion, consistency in application of the rules is one key to success. Don't screw up what batters are starting to understand at almost ALL levels by being the guy who thinks to routinely grant time when there is no reason makes him the good guy.
[/rant off]

For the record, TCannizzo has been directed by ME, on the local level. He has partially bought in, kicking and fighting, because his coaching background makes him think the batter is being disadvantaged. But he is beginning to see how the game is evolving to that, that batters are safely and adequately adjusting; even without a specific ASA directive.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

The rules say the pitcher has 20 seconds from receiving the ball to release a next pitch. ASA 6.3.O, NFHS 6-2-3. The batter has 10 seconds to take a position in the batter's box. ASA 7.3.C, NFHS 7-3-1. Wouldn't it stand to reason that the batter is expected to wait that difference in time? And that the rules makers and rules committees believe that is a reasonable amount of time for a batter to wait?.

When a coach wants to debate this, the bold portion can be the key. How often do you see a pitcher on the PP within a second or two? I would say it is usually longer than 5-8 seconds before they get both feet in contact from the time they receive the ball.

And once the hands come together, there can be no more than 10 seconds before the beginning of the pitch.

However, just be aware that there are occasions which it can be appropriate to grant the request for time.

AFA the B holding up the hand, I see that usually when the batter is preparing to get set in the box and for sake of safety, we need to make sure the batter is prepared for the pitch. Note that doesn't mean this time doesn't cut into their 10 seconds, it does.