Colored base question

[Linknblue]

ASA - On overthrows on batter-runner the defense can use the colored base and the BR can use the white base to avoid collisions. I get that.

Situation in question is: Runner on 1st, flyball to right/center field is caught, runner didn't tag and was off the base. Ball comes back from OF to 1st base but pulls 1st baseman off white bag to colored bag and colored bag is tagged prior to runner getting back.

I know you can use either the white or orange when when runner is tagging up
but it doesn't say anything about defense using colored on live appeal.

What do we have?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Linknblue

ASA - On overthrows on batter-runner the defense can use the colored base and the BR can use the white base to avoid collisions. I get that.

Situation in question is: Runner on 1st, flyball to right/center field is caught, runner didn't tag and was off the base. Ball comes back from OF to 1st base but pulls 1st baseman off white bag to colored bag and colored bag is tagged prior to runner getting back.

I know you can use either the white or orange when when runner is tagging up
but it doesn't say anything about defense using colored on live appeal.

What do we have?

With the exception of plays on a batter-runner, there is just one big double base for both the offense and defense. It isn't any more complicated than that.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Linknblue

ASA - On overthrows on batter-runner the defense can use the colored base and the BR can use the white base to avoid collisions. I get that.

Situation in question is: Runner on 1st, flyball to right/center field is caught, runner didn't tag and was off the base. Ball comes back from OF to 1st base but pulls 1st baseman off white bag to colored bag and colored bag is tagged prior to runner getting back.

I know you can use either the white or orange when when runner is tagging up
but it doesn't say anything about defense using colored on live appeal.

What do we have?

Another out.....

[jwwashburn]

I need clarification on a related issue.

ASA rules.

I do not think the book covers a situation where the fielder uses the colored part when she is not supposed to use it.

A first baseman who has fielded a grounder in fair territory is required to use the white part of the bag. This is clear. If that fielder goes to the colored part, the intention of the rule would have me assume that the runner gets whatever part she wants, right?

Did I just make any sense?

Joe in Florida

[RKBUmp]

If F3 fields the ball and goes to the orange portion of the bag, batter/runner is safe. Defense must use the white portion unless a throw is coming from foul territory or an errant throw pulls them onto the orange. F3 setting up on the orange, or fielding the ball and going to the orange is the same as being off the bag.

[jwwashburn]

I know the what the defense is supposed to do.

My question was not about that.


My question is what can the runner do if the defense uses the wrong base?

[RKBUmp]

If the defensive player has gone to the colored portion and forced the offensive player to the white, are you really going to try and penalize the offense for a mistake by the defense?

[jwwashburn]

Did you just skim my original question?

First you answer something that was not what I asked-now you assume something that is obviously the opposite of what I think should happen.

My actual question deals with the fact that the book does not address this situation.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Did you just skim my original question?

First you answer something that was not what I asked-now you assume something that is obviously the opposite of what I think should happen.

My actual question deals with the fact that the book does not address this situation.

I don't get what you're saying either... it's not just him.

Let me answer this way. The runner is required to use the colored base until he/she is not required to use the colored base. And I do believe the book covers what you're saying... although I say that lightly and I'm not sure I know what you're saying (I thought I did, until I read your responses to RKB).

Edit to add (It's line 4 (2011 book ... 2012 is in the car) that I would use here (for the BATTER) - after the fielder crosses to the foul side of the bag, )

[Linknblue]

I'm think'n....(dangerous I know). F3 fields a fair ground ball just over the bag at first with a diving catch and ends up in foul territory 3 or so feet behind the bag. Gets up and goes to tag first base and sees runner bearing down on him. Choice is to tag colored portion and get the heck out of the way or cross in front of runner and potentially (but unintentionally) get mowed down. His choice is, tag the colored bag and get out of the way. In this situation I think might be in the vein the OP is thinking about....what is the choice of the runner? Should his option be to touch the white portion and be safe or touch the colored portion and create ???????????? The book doesn't address this like in my live ball appeal situation..........at least I couldn't find it.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I don't get what you're saying either... it's not just him.

Let me answer this way. The runner is required to use the colored base until he/she is not required to use the colored base. And I do believe the book covers what you're saying... although I say that lightly and I'm not sure I know what you're saying (I thought I did, until I read your responses to RKB).

Ok, my apologies to all for not being clear.

I think the runner should be allowed the white part of the base when the fielder is using the colored portion-EVEN IF the fielder is not SUPPOSED to be using the colored portion.

Since the book does not cover this situation, I was hoping to get some confirmation for my logical conclusion.



Joe

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Linknblue

I'm think'n....(dangerous I know). F3 fields a fair ground ball just over the bag at first with a diving catch and ends up in foul territory 3 or so feet behind the bag. Gets up and goes to tag first base and sees runner bearing down on him. Choice is to tag colored portion and get the heck out of the way or cross in front of runner and potentially (but unintentionally) get mowed down. His choice is, tag the colored bag and get out of the way. In this situation I think might be in the vein the OP is thinking about....what is the choice of the runner? Should his option be to touch the white portion and be safe or touch the colored portion and create ???????????? The book doesn't address this like in my live ball appeal situation..........at least I couldn't find it.

8.2.M.4 for both of them in this case.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Ok, my apologies to all for not being clear.

I think the runner should be allowed the white part of the base when the fielder is using the colored portion-EVEN IF the fielder is not SUPPOSED to be using the colored portion.

Since the book does not cover this situation, I was hoping to get some confirmation for my logical conclusion.



Joe

I think my edit covers it. We typed at the same time.

[IRISHMAFIA]

And people wonder why this gets screwed up. Well, I wonder how in the world this can get screwed up.

The double-base only applies when there is a play on the BR. 8.2.M

The BR must use the colored portion, the defense must use the white.
Two, AND JUST TWO exceptions:
1) If the throw or play to first is coming from foul territory on the right side, or
2) If a throw from another part of the field draws the defender into foul territory.

In the case where one of the two exceptions occur, the BR may, MAY use either portion of the base.

[jwwashburn]

So, what is your opinion of what a runner can do when the defender is using the wrong part of the base? the book does not cover it.