Illegal Pitch

[Plate Man]

After watching the state playoffs in Houston, i feel they should take the rule out. If your not going to call call it Take it out or find umpires that will.
The 3:00 game yesterday had Liberty playing, and the 3U called 3 straight illegal pitches in the bottom of the first. But he stopped, she was still illegal. nothing changed. When i watch the Montogmery game today i will have a better understanding on how the state umpires is being told how to call the game this year.

[Plate Man]

I am in Austin watching the umpires work one of the state games. Montgomery game, because i heard about her being legal or illegal. The U3 is calling illegal, but the problem is that the U1 is not watching the same game. When a runner gets on base and he goes behind second base illegal pitches stop. Which brings me to my point about illegal pitch, i would like some input back on this.

Is it because some umpires are affraid to call them?

They don't know what to look for: in that case they shouldn't be there.. ,

Same team "Montogmery" at Port Author vs LCM, The Houston crew calling illegal pitches, then i heard they were replaced by a San Antinio crew because of the illegal pitches that were called. So i went and watched the crew low and behold, no illegal pitches were called either day. Once again i was there she was illegal. "Affraid to call them"

Now they go to state and illegal pitches are called again.

So why are we as umpires not on the same page?

[SRW]

?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Plate Man

I am in Austin watching the umpires work one of the state games. Montgomery game, because i heard about her being legal or illegal. The U3 is calling illegal, but the problem is that the U1 is not watching the same game. When a runner gets on base and he goes behind second base illegal pitches stop. Which brings me to my point about illegal pitch, i would like some input back on this.

Is it because some umpires are affraid to call them?

They don't know what to look for: in that case they shouldn't be there.. ,

Same team "Montogmery" at Port Author vs LCM, The Houston crew calling illegal pitches, then i heard they were replaced by a San Antinio crew because of the illegal pitches that were called. So i went and watched the crew low and behold, no illegal pitches were called either day. Once again i was there she was illegal. "Affraid to call them"

Now they go to state and illegal pitches are called again.

So why are we as umpires not on the same page?

There's a reason umpires are afraid to call them. It's the system.

Friend of mine was the umpire that called those IP's against LCM. The fact that they got pulled is crap. The fact that the girl crew from SA managed to see ZERO illegal pitches from the same pitcher is also crap. But the fact that they were pulled IS the reason the other crew (and others) won't call it.

[Welpe]

I see softball isn't immune to Texas' LOVELY system for picking playoff officials. That's a shame.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Plate Man

I am in Austin watching the umpires work one of the state games. Montgomery game, because i heard about her being legal or illegal. The U3 is calling illegal, but the problem is that the U1 is not watching the same game. When a runner gets on base and he goes behind second base illegal pitches stop. Which brings me to my point about illegal pitch, i would like some input back on this.

Is it because some umpires are affraid to call them?

They don't know what to look for: in that case they shouldn't be there.. ,

Same team "Montogmery" at Port Author vs LCM, The Houston crew calling illegal pitches, then i heard they were replaced by a San Antinio crew because of the illegal pitches that were called. So i went and watched the crew low and behold, no illegal pitches were called either day. Once again i was there she was illegal. "Affraid to call them"

Now they go to state and illegal pitches are called again.

So why are we as umpires not on the same page?

I'm curious, what was this pitchers offense?
What did you see?
How often did she do it?

[Plate Man]

[/I'm curious, what was this pitchers offense?[
COLOR="Red"][/COLOR]The rule is very simple, pivot foot on top of the plate,push off of the rubber, maintain the ground until the release. You can say crow hop, replant, leaping...
What did you see?
replant on montgomery, and leap on the second game. The Klein collins game is starting in a bit, lets see if it gets any better
How often did she do it? 90 percent of the game. I have film on just the pitcure. thats all im interesed in. The Montgomery pitcher, 95 percent...very few that were legal..I see the UIC in the first base dugout hand signialing keep it down,,,
tomorrows 4A game will be a dusey.....game of the state champ illegal pitcher....

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by Plate Man

After watching the state playoffs in Houston, i feel they should take the rule out. If your not going to call call it Take it out or find umpires that will.

Can't speak for FP since I see little of that these days, but in a coed SP game I was at this week, one of the pitchers was rung up for 13 IP over six innings for being too flat. The other pitcher was run up twice for 2 that were judged too high.

I don't think I've ever seen pitchers combine for 15 IP in a game before (and I hope I don't see it again any time soon).

[Crabby_Bob]

The toughest games are those without pitchers.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Plate Man

I am in Austin watching the umpires work one of the state games. Montgomery game, because i heard about her being legal or illegal. The U3 is calling illegal, but the problem is that the U1 is not watching the same game. When a runner gets on base and he goes behind second base illegal pitches stop. Which brings me to my point about illegal pitch, i would like some input back on this.

Is it because some umpires are affraid to call them?

They don't know what to look for: in that case they shouldn't be there.. ,

Same team "Montogmery" at Port Author vs LCM, The Houston crew calling illegal pitches, then i heard they were replaced by a San Antinio crew because of the illegal pitches that were called. So i went and watched the crew low and behold, no illegal pitches were called either day. Once again i was there she was illegal. "Affraid to call them"

Now they go to state and illegal pitches are called again.

So why are we as umpires not on the same page?

So what's your point/complaint???? You're all over the place with your posts.
One crew is at fault because they don't call the IP?
Another crew is at fault because they do call the IP?
The crews are comprised of umpires who are afraid???
You should be working this tournament not them??

Meanwhile, when asked you haven't given a clear, specific, lucid, explanation of what this pitcher is doing that is not legal.

And no, we're not looking for you to recite the definition of an IP to us. Just tell us what you've seen from the sidelines ,as you've followed this pitcher all over Texas, what the crews are/are not seeing on the field.

[Plate Man]

KJ, after reading some of your posts, i think you're a complaining little.01i34=5cmk3u4.

I was just tring to figure out why the umpires are not on the same page about illegal pitches. After watching the Montogmery game today, it proves my point, both pitchers are replanting..."That was for KJ"...When we go to the state meeting this year we might want to put more emphisis on illegal pitches...

KJ you threw the first stone,,,,,,,,No reply needed by you,,,

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by Plate Man

KJ, after reading some of your posts, i think you're a complaining little.01i34=5cmk3u4.

I was just tring to figure out why the umpires are not on the same page about illegal pitches. After watching the Montogmery game today, it proves my point, both pitchers are replanting..."That was for KJ"...When we go to the state meeting this year we might want to put more emphisis on illegal pitches...

KJ you threw the first stone,,,,,,,,No reply needed by you,,,

Very professional....

[UmpireErnie]

In a first round game at the WCWS, a pitcher from USF was called for several IPs, all for leaping. ESPN had many camera angles on it, and the IPs called were pretty obvious. It was not a question of if the pivot foot was off the ground, the only question was how far off. In any event definitely IPs.

But everyone gets in an uproar over calling IPs. The logic is often "she has not been called for it all year and she is being called for it now" so obviously the umpire calling it is in the wrong, even when video clearly shows that it's not even close. That was certainly the case with the USF game in the WCWS. Jessica Mendoza went on for quite some time lamenting the fact that these IPs were being called in such an important game when they had not been called all season. Was she at all of USFs games this season? She even acknowledged that yes, the video shows it's an obvious leap even in real time. But somehow it's wrong to call it? She seemed to believe it was unfair to this pitcher to actually call the IPs because she could not fix it in the middle of the game. Except she did, every time it was called the next pitch was perfectly legal. Hmmmm...

These kinds of arguments are often used on the field and the result is some umpires are hesitant to "see" an IP because they don't want to deal with the whining. Which of course just fuels the fire when it is called.

The game is for the players and fans, not the umpires. If those who play the game want to allow leaping (as in Men's ASA fastpitch) then change the rule. Until that time, I'll call the IPs I see. I called four this weekend in our State HS tournament. Nobody said a word.

[SpringtownHawk]

Well here we go....

I was one of the four umpires that got pulled from the LCM v Montgomery 4A Regional Final Series, I worked Second Base on a 4-man crew. LCM pitcher was a re-planter and the Montgomery pitcher is a leaper, big time. In the first game of the Regional Final the Montgomery pitcher wasn't effective from the start, so she got pulled. Her replacement, while a good foot dragger, but appeared to be stepping on and bringing her hands together without simulating the taking of the signal from the catcher which was confirmed when I watched the 3rd game of the series that decided the team moving on the the State Championship, she takes the signal, steps on and in one motion brings her hands together while raising her head up to look at the catcher. To the credit of the PU on that game, she did call an illegal pitch for a quick pitch, but just one.

An earlier point someone raised, was we need to put more emphasis on calling illegal pitches at the next state/regional meeting, well, I attended the TASO State Meeting and Rules Clinics last year held in Austin and by golly, they had an entire session on calling illegal pitches and made it a point of emphasis to call the obvious illegal pitches.

All I can say is, call what you see and if you get scratched by a coach, don't get post season assignments or don't get the opportunity to work at the State Championship so be it, you've done your job. After watching what you see on an annual basis, do you really want to be associated with that system?

Last but not least, from behind 2nd base from the right-hand side of 2nd, I called an illegal pitch for stepping outside of the 24. It looked like she was stepping toward the dugout on the 1st base line. For the crew, the 3rd base umpire called the balance of the illegal pitches, all for re-planting.

I can assure you that none of the crew that got pulled from the LCM v Montgomery Series was happy, but in hindsight, the LCM coach most likely had a, "Watch what you wish for moment" .... which came back and bit her since she at least had the toe dragger. Just say'n?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

I'm curious, what was this pitchers offense?
What did you see?
How often did she do it?

She was crow hopping, and from what I'm told, he could have called twice as many as he did call.