Dropped Pitch

[UmpireErnie]

OK, so this is a very interesting discussion.

Irish, your story about your Navy fastpitch days made me reread your post. I am getting the point you are driving at. I was thinking of a batter who sees the pitcher drop the pitch and knowing it's ball four decides to get to 1B asap and see what else she can get. Her discarded bat comes to rest in fair territory and the ball rolls into it.

But in your scenario you don't really care what the count is, you are talking about a batter who, seeing a dropped pitch rolling to the plate intentionally places the bat in the path of the ball and takes off to 1B.

Crazy idea but I would agree that by rule this is contacting the ball with the bat with one foot out of the batters box and so a dead ball out.

So if she tries to hit the ball in this manner but the ball rolls past the bat, is it a swing and a miss? She made an attempt to hit the ball even if it while the bat was not in her hands...

Is it a bunt attempt? If the ball rolled into the bat before the batter got her foot out of the box and the ball rolled foul with two strikes is she out for bunting foul?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

OK, so this is a very interesting discussion.

Irish, your story about your Navy fastpitch days made me reread your post. I am getting the point you are driving at. I was thinking of a batter who sees the pitcher drop the pitch and knowing it's ball four decides to get to 1B asap and see what else she can get. Her discarded bat comes to rest in fair territory and the ball rolls into it.

But in your scenario you don't really care what the count is, you are talking about a batter who, seeing a dropped pitch rolling to the plate intentionally places the bat in the path of the ball and takes off to 1B.

Crazy idea but I would agree that by rule this is contacting the ball with the bat with one foot out of the batters box and so a dead ball out.

Like is said, TWP.

So if she tries to hit the ball in this manner but the ball rolls past the bat, is it a swing and a miss? She made an attempt to hit the ball even if it while the bat was not in her hands...

I would say no. see below

Is it a bunt attempt? If the ball rolled into the bat before the batter got her foot out of the box and the ball rolled foul with two strikes is she out for bunting foul?

This probably would be perceived as a "bunt" as the only possible positive result would be that the bat tapped slowly in the infield. However, that means that for the purposes of determine if the batter "offered" at the pitch, the bat not being withdrawn has no bearing, and even if it did, the bat isn't in the strike zone.

[MD Longhorn]

Mike,

If this batter is smart enough to put her bat in the path of the ball with the intent to hit the ball ... suppose she's also smart enough to watch the pitch as she's running and leap into the air just before the ball strikes the bat.

Yes, WAY TWP ... but you started it! I have a base hit in this situation.

(Wanna make it weirder? What if R1 from third contacts the bat before the ball gets there?)

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Mike,

(snip)
(Wanna make it weirder? What if R1 from third contacts the bat before the ball gets there?)

Obstruction on R1?????

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Mike,

If this batter is smart enough to put her bat in the path of the ball with the intent to hit the ball ... suppose she's also smart enough to watch the pitch as she's running and leap into the air just before the ball strikes the bat.

Yes, WAY TWP ... but you started it! I have a base hit in this situation.

No, great question. And by the exact wording of the rule, there is no out to be had here, assuming the umpire is going to see the leap and be able to watch the ball at the same time

(Wanna make it weirder? What if R1 from third contacts the bat before the ball gets there?)

Depends. If no contact between bat and ball, it is a stolen base.
Now comes the hard part. You cannot have an offensive player obs a batter. What would you do if R1 was stealing home with the B still in the BB, R1 clips batter who falls and the bat hits the pitch?

[Dakota]

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Like we need TWP to get to that point!!!

[ronald]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Like we need TWP to get to that point!!!

twp =?

thanks

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Like

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

No, great question. And by the exact wording of the rule, there is no out to be had here, assuming the umpire is going to see the leap and be able to watch the ball at the same time

Here is one umpire that will determine the entire foot was on the ground at the time of contact. Because, in my opinion, the "exact wording" isn't intended to allow what is being discussed, it is intended to describe and clarify that out of the box doesn't include a foot still partially in, nor a foot that hasn't yet landed.

Every standard rule application relating to use of lines says you are 1) where your foot is currently on the ground, 2) if your foot is in the air, it is where it was last on the ground, and 3) you can re-establish a new location when one foot touches back in and the other foot then comes down after being in the air. There is NO WAY the intent of the wording regarding contacting the ball while out of the box contemplates allowing a batter to run forward with feet completely out of the box, jump in the air and contact the ball, then land with feet completely out of the box. Forget this third world dropping the bat discussion, are you allowing a slapper to do what I described on an eefus change up, and saying this is a legally batted ball??

Me, I have the batter out of the box, that's what I saw.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Every standard rule application relating to use of lines says you are 2) if your foot is in the air, it is where it was last on the ground, and 3) you can re-establish a new location when one foot touches back in and the other foot then comes down after being in the air.

Admittedly we're talking extreme twp here... however, I do not believe your assertions (2) and (3) above to be correct. In fact, I can think of no other rule in this sport that treats in or out of anything as you describe. Further, I can remember numerous clinics where the phrase, "this isn't basketball" is spoken in relation to such "in and out" of the lines discussions. In basketball, you are in or out... in baseball/softball - there is a third option - neither.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Admittedly we're talking extreme twp here... however, I do not believe your assertions (2) and (3) above to be correct. In fact, I can think of no other rule in this sport that treats in or out of anything as you describe. Further, I can remember numerous clinics where the phrase, "this isn't basketball" is spoken in relation to such "in and out" of the lines discussions. In basketball, you are in or out... in baseball/softball - there is a third option - neither.

Check definitions of a catch/no catch as relates to in play/out of play/catch and carry.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

No, great question. And by the exact wording of the rule, there is no out to be had here, assuming the umpire is going to see the leap and be able to watch the ball at the same time



Depends. If no contact between bat and ball, it is a stolen base.
Now comes the hard part. You cannot have an offensive player obs a batter. What would you do if R1 was stealing home with the B still in the BB, R1 clips batter who falls and the bat hits the pitch?

Batted ball, play ball...fair or foul, ......caught or not caught.

[outathm]

Amazing that a post put in to win a 1 beer bet, has crated 4 pages and I knew the answer and was proving a point to one of my 'young guns'. This board is AWESOME