Bat Hits Ball - NFHS

[Chess Ref]

R1 on 3B. Pitch to batter in the dirt (ball 4). Ball hits F2's shin guards and rolls a couple of feet up third base line. Batter , unintentionally, throws her bat towards on deck batter, and it strikes the ball, causing it to roll towards the dugout.

1. Is the runner closest to home called out ? And the batter allowed to proceed to first ?

2. Is the ruling any different in ASA ?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

R1 on 3B. Pitch to batter in the dirt (ball 4). Ball hits F2's shin guards and rolls a couple of feet up third base line. Batter , unintentionally, throws her bat towards on deck batter, and it strikes the ball, causing it to roll towards the dugout.

1. Is the runner closest to home called out ? And the batter allowed to proceed to first ?

2. Is the ruling any different in ASA ?

Speaking ASA

IF the umpire judges there is a possible play to be made and this action prevents the defense from obtaining the ball to make a play, it is INT (8.2.F.5) and the BR is out. The ball is dead and all runners return to the last base at the time of the INT

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

IF the umpire judges there is a possible play to be made and this action prevents the defense from obtaining the ball to make a play, it is INT (8.2.F.5) and the BR is out. The ball is dead and all runners return to the last base at the time of the INT

Irish:

I know that you are applying the rules as written, but I am going to play Devil's Advocate here and look at this play from a different point of view. The Batter had received four balls and was "awarded" 1B. More importantly, why is the ball rolling around up the 3B line? F2 didn't do her job in catching the pitch. The Batter/Runner may be "required" to may a better toss of her bat to the On-Deck Batter, but if F2 had done her job of catching the pitch then we would not be having this discussion.

MTD, Sr.

[DaveASA/FED]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Irish:

I know that you are applying the rules as written, but I am going to play Devil's Advocate here and look at this play from a different point of view. The Batter had received four balls and was "awarded" 1B. More importantly, why is the ball rolling around up the 3B line? F2 didn't do her job in catching the pitch. The Batter/Runner may be "required" to may a better toss of her bat to the On-Deck Batter, but if F2 had done her job of catching the pitch then we would not be having this discussion.

MTD, Sr.

I understand your point but being awarded a base does not give runners or batter-runners the ability to do anything they want. If I have obstruction at 1B and am going to award that runner 2B but they come plowing into the 2B person trying to apply a tag I can still have interference and that runner will be out, right? A runner or BR still has responsibilities for their actions and the rules give us the desired consequences if they perform such actions.


Now this is a HTBT play, and as Irish says you could have INT on this play if there was a play to be interfered with. Personally, I would envision that most of the time I would call "Time" a prevent anything from happening after there was contact with the bat and ball. Again, if the play had R1 on their way and F2 was working hard to get the ball and make a play when it went flying away from them due to the bat being thrown....I could see calling INT.

[umpirebob71]

I doubt there would be a possible play here on the 3rd base runner. Why would she break for home with the ball first rolling up the baseline toward her, and then just rolling toward the dugout? I guess, of course, you can't ignore the possibility of the coach screaming for her to go.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Irish:

I know that you are applying the rules as written, but I am going to play Devil's Advocate here and look at this play from a different point of view. The Batter had received four balls and was "awarded" 1B. More importantly, why is the ball rolling around up the 3B line? F2 didn't do her job in catching the pitch. The Batter/Runner may be "required" to may a better toss of her bat to the On-Deck Batter, but if F2 had done her job of catching the pitch then we would not be having this discussion.

MTD, Sr.

I see your point, but if that's what the rulesmakers wanted, they would not have put this rule in - the rule is almost verbatim what happened in the OP. Yes, defense bears the first responsibility for this ball being where it was... but once that happens, the batter bears complete responsibility for what she does with her bat.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

IF the umpire judges there is a possible play to be made and this action prevents the defense from obtaining the ball to make a play, it is INT (8.2.F.5) and the BR is out. The ball is dead and all runners return to the last base at the time of the INT

How long can you wait to make this determination? By that I mean, imagine that the ball kicks away pretty good and as a result the BR tries to take second. Can that be the play?

[RKBUmp]

If Andy checks this post maybe he can remember. I believe we had almost this exact play happen at a HS game 2 or 3 years ago. I thought it went up the chain for a rules clarification, but I may be mistaken.

My recollection was as long as their was no play being attempted, it should have been treated as a blocked ball by the offense, dead ball all runners return, batter awarded 1st on the base on balls.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

How long can you wait to make this determination? By that I mean, imagine that the ball kicks away pretty good and as a result the BR tries to take second. Can that be the play?

I think I'd be reluctant to go there. If there was a play at the time of the bat hitting the ball, I'd call INT. I think I'd be more inclined to kill it (blocked ball) if there was no play at the moment, but the ball being deflected CREATED an opportunity for the offense to move.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by youngump

How long can you wait to make this determination? By that I mean, imagine that the ball kicks away pretty good and as a result the BR tries to take second. Can that be the play?

With a runner on 3rd isn't that more likely to happen than not? I'm with Mike, I would kill the ball and if there was a pending play, possibly call INT

I know that you are applying the rules as written, but I am going to play Devil's Advocate here and look at this play from a different point of view. The Batter had received four balls and was "awarded" 1B. More importantly, why is the ball rolling around up the 3B line? F2 didn't do her job in catching the pitch. The Batter/Runner may be "required" to may a better toss of her bat to the On-Deck Batter, but if F2 had done her job of catching the pitch then we would not be having this discussion.

Okay. But along that line of thought, should we just award the BR 1st on a D3K since the defense failed to do their job? Or eliminate the D3K since the batter failed to do their job by hitting the ball? Or allow runners to run over a defender when they miss a throw? Or.........well, you know. That is why there are rules because if there wasn't, we can "what if" or "why not" every situation to death.

BTW, remember, there is no requirement to discard the bat...ever.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

If Andy checks this post maybe he can remember. I believe we had almost this exact play happen at a HS game 2 or 3 years ago. I thought it went up the chain for a rules clarification, but I may be mistaken.

My recollection was as long as their was no play being attempted, it should have been treated as a blocked ball by the offense, dead ball all runners return, batter awarded 1st on the base on balls.

I do not recall this coming from Andy or a play in Az, but I do remember a similar ruling in Pa for Fed ball.