USSSA Tag Out Scenario

[bigsig]

The part that bothers me is this: You did go to your partner to ask what they saw. Your partner said the ball was on the ground. 4 questions;
1. What reason do you have to not accept your partners judgement?
2. Did you put your partner in a position where he had to support you when he thought you were wrong?
3. Do you think there is an ethics question here?
4. Why would your partner ever want to work with you again?

[OKExplorist]

Good questions Sig.

1) My partner's statement. He was blocked on the play by the catcher. He asked if I had a catch and tag. I did. He had nothing else to offer me.

2) No. I explained the basis for my call and ask for what he saw. We discussed the possibilities and had no basis for changing the call.

3) I guess I don't see any ethical problem here. You'll have to enlighten me.

4) We worked four games together in a 10-game rotation on Saturday and had one questionable call. I don't make calls based upon my ego. I hustle. I get position. I communicate. And I have a BRILLIANT personality.

-I really am interested in what ethical violation I have here.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigsig

The part that bothers me is this: You did go to your partner to ask what they saw. Your partner said the ball was on the ground. 4 questions;
1. What reason do you have to not accept your partners judgement?
2. Did you put your partner in a position where he had to support you when he thought you were wrong?
3. Do you think there is an ethics question here?
4. Why would your partner ever want to work with you again?

I think you're jumping VERY far to a conclusion here that is not warranted. Partner gave him what he had. It didn't sound definitive to me, and it obviously wasn't to OP. Partner saw ball on the ground, but not when or how it got there. Partner didn't have to support squat - he gave his input, but it's BU's call to live with and die with. If partner was definitive, it would be different, but I assume BU's decision would have been as well.

[OKExplorist]

One thing would've fixed it....."ball came out on the tag" from my PU. He couldn't say that. I had what I had.

My original question was...."what would you have?"

[Andy]

Originally Posted by OKExplorist

One thing would've fixed it....."ball came out on the tag" from my PU. He couldn't say that. I had what I had.

My original question was...."what would you have?"

Maybe a better question would have been: "Did you see the ball on the ground?"

For him to answer the question you asked from behind the plate and being partially blocked by the catcher is difficult. He probably gave you an honest "I don't know, I didn't see the whole play" response.

Whether the ball was on the ground or not is a yes or no question that he could answer. You then take that information and make a decision to stick with your call or not.

[bigsig]

Based on your description I would agree with your call 100%. I asked the questions because I thought in your original post stated that your partner, when asked, said they saw the ball on the ground but was blocked on the tag. If the ball was on the ground how could they have maintained control?

I appreciate your civil response.

I few years ago I had a base ump come to me on a pulled foot at 1B after he called the runner out. I told him it was definitely a pulled foot. He turned around and yelled to the coach "my partner agrees, the runner is out!"
I told him after the game that I would never work with him again and filled a complaint with the ethics committee of our umpire association. (He got off with a warning)

[OKExplorist]

Originally Posted by Andy

Maybe a better question would have been: "Did you see the ball on the ground?"

Andy...I don't think my post was clear. I was asking the forum "what they have." I asked my PU what he saw. I like to leave the questions open-ended so it doesn't limit their response to me.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by OKExplorist

Andy...I don't think my post was clear. I was asking the forum "what they have." I asked my PU what he saw. I like to leave the questions open-ended so it doesn't limit their response to me.

Alright....I misunderstood.

I still stand by my answer that a yes or no question is a better option. Just how I was taught. You made the call based on what you saw, a coach or player brings something to your attention that you may not have seen due to being blocked, weird angle, etc...you ask your partner, "Did you see X?", take that information, then stick with or change your call.

Asking an open ended question may not get you the information that you are looking for.

Again....just my opinion, you are free to take it or leave it as you see fit.