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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 13, 2003, 09:32pm
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Cool

This happen to me earlier this year and just looking for some opinions and thought on a rainy day in Texas



FP game into extra inning home team at bat with less than 2 outs and runner on 2nd. I am BU and in the C slot, batter bunts ball down 3rd base line, close play at 1st and I ring it up "OUT". R1 advance to 3rd, now 2 outs, BR goes to the dugout, ball back to F1 in the circle and no argument about the call from the coaches BUT before next pitch defensive coach calls TIME to go talk to his pitcher about the situation and 1st base coach calls me over during the time out and ask to APPEAL my last call at 1st says he believe F3 pulled her foot early. So I am thinking since there hadnt been another pitch or play since the call the coach still has the right to ask for the appeal and I go to the PU. He tells me that he wont hear the appeal because it is to late the BR has already enter the dugout, so I go back to position and inform the coach the call stood the BR was "OUT". Coach makes some committ about the PU probably missed it and wasnt looking, I didnt see any reason to explain further to the coach and just went on to my position. Now, after the inning was over the PU went to the coach and told him he had seen F3 pull her foot but he was to late on the appeal because the BR had enter the dugout.


Questions

1. Am I not right that the PU should of still taken the APPEAL since a play had not take place??

2. Should I have explain more to the coach after the PU refused to listen to the APPEAL??

3. Am I not wrong when I thought the PU should of just kept quiet after the inning and not discussed the matter further with the coach unless at least requested??


The PU was a SENIOR ump and this was in a private HS play-off game and my opinion he was trying to take the monkey off his back in case there was further games to be had. I just kept my mouth shut and went on, didnt figure it was worth making an ado over


Thanks

Don
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 13, 2003, 09:43pm
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I think the PU sold you out. Get the call right. We ask the coaches to approach us professionally and then when they do we still don't work together. Your question to the PU should have been "did you see a pulled foot?" If yes, then SAFE. Bring her back out of the dugout. But first, call the defensive coach over and let them know what happened. It keeps them from feeling violated in some way.
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Old Sat Jun 14, 2003, 12:48am
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I agree with Rachel's comments.
Quote:
Originally posted by oppool
1. Am I not right that the PU should of still taken the APPEAL since a play had not take place??
No, you should have just gotten his information and you should have handled the appeal - it was your call, not his. But, yes, the appeal should have been honored.

Quote:
2. Should I have explain more to the coach after the PU refused to listen to the APPEAL??
Given that you gave the call to your partner, he should have talked with the coach, especially since you did not agree with it. But, in the situation you were in, I think what you told the coach was appropriate.

Quote:
3. Am I not wrong when I thought the PU should of just kept quiet after the inning and not discussed the matter further with the coach unless at least requested??
The PU shoulda kept his trap shut. Sounds like he was trying to make himself look good.
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Old Sat Jun 14, 2003, 03:58am
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I agree with the previous postings.

1. Am I not right that the PU should of still taken the APPEAL since a play had not take place??
My thoughts on this are just semantics, but remember that it is still your call, you are just asking for input from your partner. Quietly, "Hey partner, did you see a pullled foot?" It is just a yes or no question and then you make the call. If your partner says that he is not going to answer your questions because he feels it has been too long or for whatever reason, you just have to make the call with the informatation you do have.

2. Should I have explain more to the coach after the PU refused to listen to the APPEAL??
After the initial discussion with the plate umpire, I would have just told the coach, "He got the same thing." That's the phrasing I always use because it is short, simple, and directly to the point, a.k.a. I want to talk to coaches as little as possible.

3. Am I not wrong when I thought the PU should of just kept quiet after the inning and not discussed the matter further with the coach unless at least requested??
PU should have kept quiet, even if requested. "Coach, that was my partner's call. If you've got questions about it, go talk to him." My biggest soap box is umpires that don't do this. I have been in similar situations and told the coach, "Coach, that was my call. There's no need to talk to him about it."

Being that in your circumstance the PU approached the coach, I think I would have walked over to where the umpire and coach were and said to my partner, "If a wrong call made a player enter the dugout, she has not abandoned her base running duties. You're wrong on what your saying and you sold this coach out." I would have then immediately turned and gone back to my position, fully expecting a snide remark from my partner or at least discussion of the situation after the game.

Your partner was trying to show you up and look like the big dog. You have a choice of either rolling over and being the little dog or standing up for your knowledge. Does it make for a confrontational and tense moment? Yes. Is respectful confrontation a bad thing? I don't think so.

Of course as with all the postings on this board, these "here's what you should have done" comments are being made from an easychair at home (or work) and not in the heat of battle.
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Old Sat Jun 14, 2003, 05:35am
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Question

Ok, I have to add my 2 cents.

1. Yes PU should have accepted the appeal, no other action had taken place.
2. No need to explain further to the coach.

Now no. 3 You have got to be kidding!!!!!!! Was the PU that stupid. Why in the world would he admit the foot was pulled but wasn't going to accept the appeal. He deserves anything the coach wanted to dish out.
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Old Sat Jun 14, 2003, 07:26am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Del-Blue
Ok, I have to add my 2 cents.

1. Yes PU should have accepted the appeal, no other action had taken place.
2. No need to explain further to the coach.

Now no. 3 You have got to be kidding!!!!!!! Was the PU that stupid. Why in the world would he admit the foot was pulled but wasn't going to accept the appeal. He deserves anything the coach wanted to dish out.
I agree with DelBlue, Dakota and Rachel. When you are right, insist, PU does not equal GOD.

I don't think the following is good advice for during the game. If you let the PU overrule you at the time, you are stuck with it until the parking lot.

"Being that in your circumstance the PU approached the coach, I think I would have walked over to where the umpire and coach were and said to my partner, "If a wrong call made a player enter the dugout, she has not abandoned her base running duties. You're wrong on what your saying and you sold this coach out." I would have then immediately turned and gone back to my position, fully expecting a snide remark from my partner or at least discussion of the situation after the game.

Your partner was trying to show you up and look like the big dog. You have a choice of either rolling over and being the little dog or standing up for your knowledge. Does it make for a confrontational and tense moment? Yes. Is respectful confrontation a bad thing? I don't think so."
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