Not Your Everyday Play

[EsqUmp]

Here is a variation of an interesting play I recently heard.

1 out. R3 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd and R1 on 1st. Batter hits a line drive to the short stop (no infield fly + 2nd out). F4 catches the ball but drops it in the transfer. The plate umpire immediate states and repeats, "That's a catch, the batter's out." R3, who was off with the pitch, stopped when the ball was hit, but then continued home without tagging up. F4 throws the ball to F2, who stands on the plate and catches the ball before R3 arrives. R3 crosses home plate; however, F2 doesn't tag R3. Instead, F2 throws down to F6, who is covering 2nd base and tags out R1, who was trying to advance. The base coaches throw their hands up in the air and the defense leaves the field.

What is the plate umpire's responsibility of addressing what happened at home plate? What is the call/mechanic. How would you make the call?

[NCASAUmp]

I'd hesitate just slightly to see if her body language indicates that she'll make an appeal. If she doesn't say anything about the lack of a tag-up, I'm calling safe. If they want to make a fourth out appeal later (and this sitch qualifies as one), they may certainly do so.

In this sitch, it sounds like the defense didn't make a proper live ball appeal, and this would be nothing more than a DMC. In ASA, if all of the infielders have left fair territory, they've given up their right to appeal.

I'd also wonder why R1 and R3 were on the wrong bases at the start of the play, and might consider tossing the coach as a result.

Seems pretty ordinary to me, though.

[txtrooper]

Originally Posted by ncasaump

i'd hesitate just slightly to see if her body language indicates that she'll make an appeal. If she doesn't say anything about the lack of a tag-up, i'm calling safe. If they want to make a fourth out appeal later (and this sitch qualifies as one), they may certainly do so.

In this sitch, it sounds like the defense didn't make a proper live ball appeal, and this would be nothing more than a dmc. In asa, if all of the infielders have left fair territory, they've given up their right to appeal.

I'd also wonder why r1 and r3 were on the wrong bases at the start of the play, and might consider tossing the coach as a result. :d

seems pretty ordinary to me, though.

+1

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Here is a variation of an interesting play I recently heard.

1 out. R3 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd and R1 on 1st. Batter hits a line drive to the short stop (no infield fly + 2nd out). F4 catches the ball but drops it in the transfer. The plate umpire immediate states and repeats, "That's a catch, the batter's out." R3, who was off with the pitch, stopped when the ball was hit, but then continued home without tagging up. F4 throws the ball to F2, who stands on the plate and catches the ball before R3 arrives. R3 crosses home plate; however, F2 doesn't tag R3. Instead, F2 throws down to F6, who is covering 2nd base and tags out R1, who was trying to advance. The base coaches throw their hands up in the air and the defense leaves the field.

What is the plate umpire's responsibility of addressing what happened at home plate? What is the call/mechanic. How would you make the call?

Safe call at the plate since there was no tag. The umpire can preface call with, "no tag".

No appeal available once infielders leave fair territory.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Batter hits a line drive to the short stop (no infield fly + 2nd out). F4 catches the ball but drops it in the transfer.

I'd also wonder how F4 caught the line drive to the short stop.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by SRW

I'd also wonder how F4 caught the line drive to the short stop.

Typographical error. F4 / 2nd baseman.



I use R3-3rd, R2-2nd, & R1-1st. I think by keeping the numbers consistent with the bases, it reads more easily. I think to say R1 on 3rd and R3 on 1st just starts a conversation with confusion. Just my preference.


What, if anything, do you say regarding R3 scoring once the inning concludes?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Typographical error. F4 / 2nd baseman.



I use R3-3rd, R2-2nd, & R1-1st. I think by keeping the numbers consistent with the bases, it reads more easily. I think to say R1 on 3rd and R3 on 1st just starts a conversation with confusion. Just my preference.


What, if anything, do you say regarding R3 scoring once the inning concludes?

Nothing. I'd already called her safe, so she's safe and her score counts until the defense properly appeals. Once the infielders left fair territory, they lost their chance to appeal.

I'm not sure what mechanic you're asking for. Is there something you think an umpire should do in this situation?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

I use R3-3rd, R2-2nd, & R1-1st. I think by keeping the numbers consistent with the bases, it reads more easily. I think to say R1 on 3rd and R3 on 1st just starts a conversation with confusion. Just my preference.

Does the 3rd day of trial come before the 1st if the trial started on the 2nd of the month?

Wouldn't help much if I tried to communicate in ASL in a room full of people who cannot read it. If you want to communicate with people, you need to do so in their language

What, if anything, do you say regarding R3 scoring once the inning concludes?

Nothing to say without a prompt.

[EsqUmp]

Dave, with all of the commotion and a quick throw by the catcher down to 2nd base, make may not fully hear the "no tag, safe." So I am wondering whether, for clarity, should the plate umpire, in your opinion, reiterate "Run scores, count the run?" once the 3rd out is recorded?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Dave, with all of the commotion and a quick throw by the catcher down to 2nd base, make may not fully hear the "no tag, safe." So I am wondering whether, for clarity, should the plate umpire, in your opinion, reiterate "Run scores, count the run?" once the 3rd out is recorded?

Not necessary. There was no force out for the third out, and we've already called her safe. Why should we treat this any differently than any other missed tag-up?

Changing the mechanic would tip off the defense that they missed something.

Out of curiosity (not being flippant here), did you call baseball before calling softball?

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Out of curiosity (not being flippant here), did you call baseball before calling softball?

I began with softball and aside from an occasional baseball game, only umpire softball. I was not, however, trained under ASA, as most can tell...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

I began with softball and aside from an occasional baseball game, only umpire softball. I was not, however, trained under ASA, as most can tell...

This isn't just ASA. NFHS & PONY and all other softball organizations of which I am aware use the same reference format of numbering the player based upon the batting order of that half inning.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Dave, with all of the commotion and a quick throw by the catcher down to 2nd base, make may not fully hear the "no tag, safe." So I am wondering whether, for clarity, should the plate umpire, in your opinion, reiterate "Run scores, count the run?" once the 3rd out is recorded?

Only after no appeal is possible any longer - then I would say exactly that to the scorekeeper.

The reason you were asked about baseball is that they DO use the R3 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd nomenclature. Softball (all codes) uses R1 as the lead runner, wherever she is, R2 the next runner, etc.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Only after no appeal is possible any longer - then I would say exactly that to the scorekeeper.

The reason you were asked about baseball is that they DO use the R3 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd nomenclature. Softball (all codes) uses R1 as the lead runner, wherever she is, R2 the next runner, etc.

I would only ask the scorekeeper if s/he got that last run, just to make sure they understand that the run goes on the board (after no appeal is possible, as Mike said).

I also brought up the baseball question because their mechanics can differ on some appeals.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

This isn't just ASA. NFHS & PONY and all other softball organizations of which I am aware use the same reference format of numbering the player based upon the batting order of that half inning.

I understand that. NCAA, Referee Magazine and PONY (they are clearing up the book) use it the way I worded it. Since I deal with those organizations more, I use their terminology.