Calling IP

[CelticNHBlue]

Was thinking about option plays yesterday, with regards to the new NCAA rule, and realized I have developed a habit and wanted to get feedback from others about what they do.

When you are the plate umpire and your base umpire calls an IP (nice and loud and you hear and register the call), do you still make a pitch call if the ball is not hit? Why or why not?

Reason I ask is, if it's just a pitch, the option is obvious, ball and advance (if applicable) so is there really a need to make the call on the pitch. I'm curious about all the rulesets, not just NCAA, about the reasoning why you do or do not, would or would not, make a call.

[outathm]

Ip's should only be loud enough for the player closest to the caller to hear the verbal. You should still call the pitch, because the pitch is still a pitch, ball or strike may make a difference in the choice.

You do not want to call the IP too loudly so that everyone freezes because of the IP.

This is true of every rule set.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by outathm

Ip's should only be loud enough for the player closest to the caller to hear the verbal. You should still call the pitch, because the pitch is still a pitch, ball or strike may make a difference in the choice.

You do not want to call the IP too loudly so that everyone freezes because of the IP.

This is true of every rule set.

Could not agree more. Think how loud the BU would have to be for the PU to hear over the commotion of the dugouts, coaches and catcher screaming instructions and the cheering fans. Not to mention the point that the PU should be concentrating on the pitch.

Same reason you don't scream "obstruction". Players just stop playing and that isn't what is supposed to happen.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by outathm

Ip's should only be loud enough for the player closest to the caller to hear the verbal. You should still call the pitch, because the pitch is still a pitch, ball or strike may make a difference in the choice.

You do not want to call the IP too loudly so that everyone freezes because of the IP.

This is true of every rule set.

I have reformed. No more waking the umps on the next field!

Hi, Rich.

[Andy]

I will throw my agreement in with the group....The BU should only be announcing the IP to the players closest to him/her. There have been occassions where I have heard my BU call the IP, but there are far more when I have not. I will usually pick up the DDB signal out of the corner of my eye, but even then, I don't have enough time to process that before the pitch arrives and my brain is in the decision and calling cycle.

[CelticNHBlue]

I would estimate that I hear the IP 70% of the time, maybe more. Maybe I have rabbit hears; they are kind of big. But the response is about what I expected since that is what we are taught. Somehow, I have gotten into the habit of not completing my call when I hear the IP called and there is no further action on the pitch. I still make the judgement, but by the time its caught and I delay my verbal and signal, I've managed to recognize the IP and not finish.

So now I'm thinking of situations where it would make a difference if the pitch is called or not and so far I have but one:

The result of the pitch will impact the option if runners advance more than one base without the batter making contact with the ball. It would have to be a called strike (but not 3rd strike with two outs). Runner advancement would most likely be on a steal with further advancement on an overthrow of some sort. Options: strike on the batter (out if third) and runners have advanced, or ball and one base each.

Can you think of any others?

[argodad]

Originally Posted by CelticNHBlue

So now I'm thinking of situations where it would make a difference if the pitch is called or not and so far I have but one:

The result of the pitch will impact the option if runners advance more than one base without the batter making contact with the ball. It would have to be a called strike (but not 3rd strike with two outs). Runner advancement would most likely be on a steal with further advancement on an overthrow of some sort. Options: strike on the batter (out if third) and runners have advanced, or ball and one base each.

Can you think of any others?

But does the OC have the option if the pitch isn't batted or the batter becomes a batter-runner?

[varefump]

This goes back to the other recent post where R1 from 1st steals on an illegal pitch and advances to 3rd on a passed ball or wild pitch.

Since the pitch was not hit and the batter did not become a base-runner, by rule the OC does NOT have a choice.

Our association has determined that the ball should become DEAD as soon as the pitch ends (not hit). This kills the play and we award R1 2nd and reverse any strike that may be called.

By killing the play, we prevent any possible outs that occur after R1 reaches 2nd and also any possible injuries on R1.

Does anyone else agree with this interpretation?

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by varefump

This goes back to the other recent post where R1 from 1st steals on an illegal pitch and advances to 3rd on a passed ball or wild pitch.

Since the pitch was not hit and the batter did not become a base-runner, by rule the OC does NOT have a choice.

Our association has determined that the ball should become DEAD as soon as the pitch ends (not hit). This kills the play and we award R1 2nd and reverse any strike that may be called.

By killing the play, we prevent any possible outs that occur after R1 reaches 2nd and also any possible injuries on R1.

Does anyone else agree with this interpretation?

Not an NCAA specific situation - I asked this in another post and I guess no one had an answer to it:

If the batter takes the pitch and you've already signaled/verbalized "illegal", is there a mechanic to stop baserunners who may be in motion?

Do you immediately call "dead ball? Or do you wait for the "play" to continue? If we can avoid someone getting hurt via sliding or being hit with a thrown ball, that's a good thing.

[derwil]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Not an NCAA specific situation - I asked this in another post and I guess no one had an answer to it:

If the batter takes the pitch and you've already signaled/verbalized "illegal", is there a mechanic to stop baserunners who may be in motion?

Do you immediately call "dead ball? Or do you wait for the "play" to continue? If we can avoid someone getting hurt via sliding or being hit with a thrown ball, that's a good thing.

Illegal pitch is not a dead ball, it is a delay dead ball. Play continues. If a runner runs, then let her. Our job is not to prevent injuries, our job is to officiate the play on the field. The penalty for IP is a ball on the batter and all runners advance one base, or the result of the play. If you dead ball it, you've effected the result of the play and will probably have a coach discussing your life choices with you very shortly. Let the play finish, then call time and apply the penalty.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by derwil

Illegal pitch is not a dead ball, it is a delay dead ball. Play continues. If a runner runs, then let her. Our job is not to prevent injuries, our job is to officiate the play on the field. The penalty for IP is a ball on the batter and all runners advance one base, or the result of the play. If you dead ball it, you've effected the result of the play and will probably have a coach discussing your life choices with you very shortly. Let the play finish, then call time and apply the penalty.

Didn't read the rest of this thread?

[varefump]

The illegal pitch is delayed dead to allow the bater the opportunity to hit the ball or otherwise become a baserunner. Once that opportunity has passed, then the ball becomes dead. I cannot comprehend allowing the defense to record a possible out on an illegal pitch when no option can be given to the OC.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by varefump

The illegal pitch is delayed dead to allow the bater the opportunity to hit the ball or otherwise become a baserunner. Once that opportunity has passed, then the ball becomes dead. I cannot comprehend allowing the defense to record a possible out on an illegal pitch when no option can be given to the OC.

R1 on 2, IP, base hit to CF and R1 thrown out at home after BR reaches 1st safely

[CelticNHBlue]

I've had several discussions in the past weeks regarding this issue. There have been some interesting points brought up along the way, both here and in my other travels.

Taking a complete look at the possibilites that can result during a play that starts with an IP, I now wonder why an offensive coach doesn't just send all his runners once s/he recognizes one has been called.

By definition, an IP is a DDB to allow the play to be completed so the offense can select the most advantageous result. The play does not end until the ball is held by the pitcher in the circle and all runners are standing on a base.

Does it seem so outrageous that if you have R1 on first, and an IP that is not hit, to have your runner jog to second and continue to third. The worst that can happen is she gets tagged out and the coach takes the IP option. I can totally see a defense pointing in confusion that 'the runner only gets one base on an IP', 'why is she still advancing'; but doing nothing to stop her.

Anyone disagree with my conclusion? Am I just really late to the table having this sink in now? All this option play discussion from the NCAA rule change has gotten me thinking about these situations in more depth.

[argodad]

Originally Posted by CelticNHBlue

I've had several discussions in the past weeks regarding this issue. There have been some interesting points brought up along the way, both here and in my other travels.

Taking a complete look at the possibilites that can result during a play that starts with an IP, I now wonder why an offensive coach doesn't just send all his runners once s/he recognizes one has been called.

By definition, an IP is a DDB to allow the play to be completed so the offense can select the most advantageous result. The play does not end until the ball is held by the pitcher in the circle and all runners are standing on a base.

Does it seem so outrageous that if you have R1 on first, and an IP that is not hit, to have your runner jog to second and continue to third. The worst that can happen is she gets tagged out and the coach takes the IP option. I can totally see a defense pointing in confusion that 'the runner only gets one base on an IP', 'why is she still advancing'; but doing nothing to stop her.

Anyone disagree with my conclusion? Am I just really late to the table having this sink in now? All this option play discussion from the NCAA rule change has gotten me thinking about these situations in more depth.

I no longer call college ball, but in NFHS the offense doesn't have an option if the IP isn't hit or the batter becomes a BR. Once it isn't hit, dead ball, make the award.