Does the Run Count?

[BretMan]

Runner on second base, two outs.

Batter hits safely to the outfield. Runner from second crosses, but does not touch, home plate. Batter-runner tries to stretch it for a double. B/R is tagged out sliding into second base.

The runner who missed the plate turns around and retouches it. Defense then appeals that the runner had missed the plate.

Does the run count?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Runner on second base, two outs.

Batter hits safely to the outfield. Runner from second crosses, but does not touch, home plate. Batter-runner tries to stretch it for a double. B/R is tagged out sliding into second base.

The runner who missed the plate turns around and retouches it. Defense then appeals that the runner had missed the plate.

Does the run count?

Speaking ASA, yes.
8.3.B
NCAA, no
12.22.2.2

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA, yes.
8.3.B
NCAA, no
12.22.2.2

The goofy thing about NCAA is that in this particular circumstance, it is a waste of time returning to touch the plate.

[BretMan]

(I'll address the ASA rule, not being an NCAA umpire).

When this question came up on another internet forum, some seemed to think that once the third out was recorded (batter-runner going into second base) that the runner who missed the plate could no longer correct his baserunning error.

They were basing this on 5-5-B(2). That rule says that no run shall score when a runner being put out on a tag play is the third out and it occurs prior to the lead runner touching home plate.

Their reasoning didn't seem right to me. Obviously, if there had been no appeal of the missed base, and no retouch, the run would have counted- even though the runner did not "touch" the plate. When the rule refers to "touching" the plate, isn't it really talking about "reaching" or "passing" the plate?

What rule or interpretation supports that a runner may, or may not, correct a baserunning mistake after the third out is recorded?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by BretMan

(I'll address the ASA rule, not being an NCAA umpire).

When this question came up on another internet forum, some seemed to think that once the third out was recorded (batter-runner going into second base) that the runner who missed the plate could no longer correct his baserunning error.

They were basing this on 5-5-B(2). That rule says that no run shall score when a runner being put out on a tag play is the third out and it occurs prior to the lead runner touching home plate.

Their reasoning didn't seem right to me. Obviously, if there had been no appeal of the missed base, and no retouch, the run would have counted- even though the runner did not "touch" the plate. When the rule refers to "touching" the plate, isn't it really talking about "reaching" or "passing" the plate?

Don't necessarilly disagree with this line of thought, but at this point, I cannot find any exception to the noted rule that a passed base is a touched base. So, I'll go with the rules I have available.

What rule or interpretation supports that a runner may, or may not, correct a baserunning mistake after the third out is recorded?

Let's play with this. Lacking any indication in the OP that the teams threw the ball to the catcher for what could be considered a live ball appeal (don't know if that is possible after the 3rd out), I'm going to assume this was in the form of a dead ball appeal. Under RS#1, all runners must be given ample opportunity to complete their baserunning responsibilities. So, under that premise, if the runner appeared to be heading back to the plate with intent on touching it, I would think that needs to be permitted.

OTOH, if the defense did throw the ball and attempt to tag the returning runner, would you allow that to happen since the 3rd out has been recorded?

And if the defense can make a play after the 3rd out, why shouldn't the offense be allowed to continue?

Given that I don't have a noted or referenced exception, I'll stick with the citations of the rule I have in black and white, of course, subject to change in future should a change in the rule or interpretation be published.