Does she have to pitch?

JEL · #1 (**permalink**) Fri May 23, 2003, 12:23pm

ASA rules, (and any other which apply), girls fast pitch. Had a situation where at half inning, as defense was taking field, F5 takes mound and throws 3 pitches, then walks over to 3rd base, and original pitcher re-takes mound. This was done probably because offense had all girls out on field, (on deck) timing warm-ups. Offense posed this question, If F3 throws warm-up, does she have to throw at least one pitch to a batter? Questions are, 1. Was defense action illegal? I cant find a rule which applies. 2. Was offense action illegal? I found ruling which does not allow multiple on deck batters during half inning, is this enforced? I have never seen it but have seen the warm-ups by all batters. 3. I allowed play as stated above, did I blow it? I know both coaches were playing the mind game with each other, it did not seem to be detremental to the game, but what is proper action here?

IRISHMAFIA · #2 (**permalink**) Fri May 23, 2003, 12:33pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JEL
ASA rules, (and any other which apply), girls fast pitch. Had a situation where at half inning, as defense was taking field, F5 takes mound and throws 3 pitches, then walks over to 3rd base, and original pitcher re-takes mound. This was done probably because offense had all girls out on field, (on deck) timing warm-ups. Offense posed this question, If F3 throws warm-up, does she have to throw at least one pitch to a batter? Questions are, 1. Was defense action illegal? I cant find a rule which applies. 2. Was offense action illegal? I found ruling which does not allow multiple on deck batters during half inning, is this enforced? I have never seen it but have seen the warm-ups by all batters. 3. I allowed play as stated above, did I blow it? I know both coaches were playing the mind game with each other, it did not seem to be detremental to the game, but what is proper action here?

No. Anyone can take the warm-ups, but they are still limited to 5 (FP) or one minute regardless of who throws them.

1. No
2. No. This period was during a suspension of play and there are no restrictions on anyone during this period as long as they do not delay the start of the inning.
3. There was nothing for you to do other then monitor the number of warm-ups thrown by any player from the team taking up their defensive positions.

Dakota · #3 (**permalink**) Fri May 23, 2003, 12:57pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JEL
1. Was defense action illegal? I cant find a rule which applies.

The rule is ASA 4-6C.

Quote:

2. Was offense action illegal? I found ruling which does not allow multiple on deck batters during half inning, is this enforced? I have never seen it but have seen the warm-ups by all batters.

In JO play, I do not allow more than the first batter due up to be standing around out of the dugout during warmups. I rely on rule 5-12.

Quote:

3. I allowed play as stated above, did I blow it? I know both coaches were playing the mind game with each other, it did not seem to be detremental to the game, but what is proper action here?

No. Only thing is I would have chased the line up of batters back into the dugout during warmups.

IRISHMAFIA · #4 (**permalink**) Fri May 23, 2003, 04:13pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dakota

Quote:

2. Was offense action illegal? I found ruling which does not allow multiple on deck batters during half inning, is this enforced? I have never seen it but have seen the warm-ups by all batters.

In JO play, I do not allow more than the first batter due up to be standing around out of the dugout during warmups. I rely on rule 5-12.

[/B]

Just one question, Tom. Do you allow a coach to talk to their pitcher, or any other defensive player, during the warm-up period?

JEL · #5 (**permalink**) Fri May 23, 2003, 04:47pm

Mike, That one I know (I think). I believe that to be a chargeable conference, and I don't allow it.

Dakota · #6 (**permalink**) Fri May 23, 2003, 05:02pm

Quote:

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
Just one question, Tom. Do you allow a coach to talk to their pitcher, or any other defensive player, during the warm-up period?

Yes ... rules allows the coach to talk with his players. Rules are silent on a line up of the first 4 batters due up timing the pitches. Most fields don't have a lot of room between the dugout and the foul lines, so having all those batters with all those swinging bats in an area where defensive players are tossing balls around is not "justified by the umpire" (at least not this umpire). I couldn't care less about the teams playing "head games" unless things start to take a nasty turn - it has to do more with safety.

Dakota · #7 (**permalink**) Fri May 23, 2003, 05:04pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JEL
Mike, That one I know (I think). I believe that to be a chargeable conference, and I don't allow it.

Actually, it would not be a charged conference because it is between half innings. Just don't let the coach delay the start of the inning.

JEL · #8 (**permalink**) Fri May 23, 2003, 05:32pm

Uh-oh, did I blow another call? If a coach is at the mound during the half inning, this is not a visit? Ive been led to believe it is (9-10 yr old baseball here) I wouldnt mind allowing it, if it doesnt interfere any other way.

CecilOne · #9 (**permalink**) Fri May 23, 2003, 07:26pm

There could be a local rule and especially if is non-SOFTball, but who in their right mind would make a rule against extra coaching for 9-10 year olds.

IRISHMAFIA · #10 (**permalink**) Sat May 24, 2003, 08:25am

Quote:

Originally posted by JEL
Uh-oh, did I blow another call? If a coach is at the mound during the half inning, this is not a visit? Ive been led to believe it is (9-10 yr old baseball here) I wouldnt mind allowing it, if it doesnt interfere any other way.

JEL,

SOFTBALL! SOFTBALL! SOFTBALL!

Just keep repeating that when posting on this board. Baseball and softball are different games played under different philosophies and different rules.

IRISHMAFIA · #11 (**permalink**) Sat May 24, 2003, 08:29am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dakota

Quote:

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
Just one question, Tom. Do you allow a coach to talk to their pitcher, or any other defensive player, during the warm-up period?

Yes ... rules allows the coach to talk with his players. Rules are silent on a line up of the first 4 batters due up timing the pitches. Most fields don't have a lot of room between the dugout and the foul lines, so having all those batters with all those swinging bats in an area where defensive players are tossing balls around is not "justified by the umpire" (at least not this umpire). I couldn't care less about the teams playing "head games" unless things start to take a nasty turn - it has to do more with safety.

However, I think you get the point I was trying to make.

You need to remember, I'm debating the rules in general. Different fields and safety concerns may certainly dictate other action.

Dakota · #12 (**permalink**) Sat May 24, 2003, 10:28am

Yup, I got your point.

JEL · #13 (**permalink**) Sat May 24, 2003, 01:22pm

Yep, I get your point also.
This has been in SOFT, and BASE ball. No local ruling on this, just learned from my obvservation of the "Old Timers". I dont mind it, but if it is illegal, I wanted to stop it before another coach starts to gripe. Thanks for all responses. PS, I'll try and get the right boards next time, eyesight not to good you know!

[Edited by JEL on May 24th, 2003 at 01:29 PM]

Dakota · #14 (**permalink**) Sat May 24, 2003, 01:32pm

JEL,

Some other thoughts on charged conferences (ASA)...

It is not a charged conference if the coach enters the field to talk with his players during either an official's time out (confer with partner, for example), or a time out called at the request of the other team, so long as the coach does not delay play (i.e. he has left the field by the time play is ready to resume).

It is not a charged conference if the coach informs the umpire prior to entering the field (crossing the foul line) that he will be replacing the pitcher (and he does replace the pitcher).

But, you probably knew that!

IRISHMAFIA · #15 (**permalink**) Sat May 24, 2003, 02:06pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JEL
Yep, I get your point also.
This has been in SOFT, and BASE ball. No local ruling on this, just learned from my obvservation of the "Old Timers". I dont mind it, but if it is illegal, I wanted to stop it before another coach starts to gripe. Thanks for all responses. PS, I'll try and get the right boards next time, eyesight not to good you know!

[Edited by JEL on May 24th, 2003 at 01:29 PM]

JEL,

Please don't take my posts the wrong way. I am glad you are here and asking questions. However, the games are different. Many of the rules are similar, but some are handled in a totally opposite fashion.

It can be difficult to have an intelligent discussion when discussing two different sets of rules. And it's not just baseball v softball, it is often one sanctioning body v another. If you read through the board, you will often see the poster qualify the thread by noting the association rules under which the game in question was played.

BTW, if you are relying solely on OJT through emulation of the "old timers", I would suggest you find some serious training when possible. While veterans are a valuable source of knowledge, you may end up with some old material and myths which could get you in trouble down the road. As a UIC, I experience more problems with beliefs of some veterans' beliefs than I do the rookies.

Welcome to the board