Illegal Pitches???

[Tex]

Illegal Pitches (NFHS)???

I have seen many times where the pitcher steps on the pitching plate and does illegal motions, such as: hands together while stepping onto plate, hands separating and coming together more than once, catcher not in catcher's box, etc.

The problem is the batter is not in the batter's box while these motions are happening.

Talking to the coach most likely, does not correct the problem.

What is the call? Can an illegal pitch be called if the batter is not in the batter's box? Any other advice?

What is the call in ASA?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Tex

Illegal Pitches (NFHS)???

I have seen many times where the pitcher steps on the pitching plate and does illegal motions, such as: hands together while stepping onto plate, hands separating and coming together more than once, catcher not in catcher's box, etc.

The problem is the batter is not in the batter's box while these motions are happening.

Talking to the coach most likely, does not correct the problem.

What is the call? Can an illegal pitch be called if the batter is not in the batter's box? Any other advice?

What is the call in ASA?

Illegal pitch can be called without the batter in the batter's box.

I'd like to hear a little more about what you are have seen illegal regarding the catcher's box. I think the next time I have an illegal pitch regarding the catcher's box will be the first.

I

[Tex]

Thanks for the reply

NFHS
6-3-1 . . . The catcher shall be inside the lines of the catcher’s box when the
pitcher takes a position to pitch and when the pitch is released.
PENALTY: (Art. 1) An illegal pitch is called.

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by Tex

Thanks for the reply

NFHS
6-3-1 . . . The catcher shall be inside the lines of the catcher’s box when the
pitcher takes a position to pitch and when the pitch is released.
PENALTY: (Art. 1) An illegal pitch is called.

That box is huge' though. In over 20 years, I have never come close to seeing a catcher not in the box when the pitcher 'toes up' . I did call an IP last spring in HS ball for a 1st baseman not being in fair territory at the time of the pitch. (still not sure why as a right handed 1st baseman would want to 'straddle' the foul line like that))

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Tex

Thanks for the reply

NFHS
6-3-1 . . . The catcher shall be inside the lines of the catcher’s box when the
pitcher takes a position to pitch and when the pitch is released.
PENALTY: (Art. 1) An illegal pitch is called.

That's the rule, I was just wondering if you've actually had occasion to make that call.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Tex

Thanks for the reply

NFHS
6-3-1 . . . The catcher shall be inside the lines of the catcher’s box when the
pitcher takes a position to pitch and when the pitch is released.
PENALTY: (Art. 1) An illegal pitch is called.

What about when the catcher is in front of the box (both feet)?

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

What about when the catcher is in front of the box (both feet)?

The box doesn't have a front.
Those lines are only the back edge of the batter's box.

[MrRabbit]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

The box doesn't have a front.
Those lines are only the back edge of the batter's box.

Please explain how the catchers box does not have a front line?

[pdm54]

Had a catcher set up outside the box once on an intentional walk.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by MrRabbit

Please explain how the catchers box does not have a front line?

Every umpire manual I have read (ASA, NCAA, ISF and NFHS) states it is the catcher's option to move up past the back of the batter's box WITHOUT penalty, albeit at risk of obstruction (since the batter is entitled to use the entire box, including backing up at the pitch).

The illegal pitch penalty should only be assessed if the (idiot) catcher is to either side or behind the catcher's box at the time of the pitch, not to the front. Any umpire that chooses to penalize a catcher for doing a GOOD thing, and helping us see the ball at the plate, needs retraining or rethinking.

[MrRabbit]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Every umpire manual I have read (ASA, NCAA, ISF and NFHS) states it is the catcher's option to move up past the back of the batter's box WITHOUT penalty, albeit at risk of obstruction (since the batter is entitled to use the entire box, including backing up at the pitch).

The illegal pitch penalty should only be assessed if the (idiot) catcher is to either side or behind the catcher's box at the time of the pitch, not to the front. Any umpire that chooses to penalize a catcher for doing a GOOD thing, and helping us see the ball at the plate, needs retraining or rethinking.

Please give the rule that says that it is the catcher's option to move up past the back of the batter's box WITHOUT penalty before the pitcher releases the ball in fast pitch?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

The box doesn't have a front.
Those lines are only the back edge of the batter's box.

Rule books define the catcher's box as an 8.5 by 10 rectangle.

[RKBUmp]

I would have to argue the catchers box does in fact have a front line, as it is described in Rule 2-3-D as being 8.5' X 10' in dimensions and is also shown as that dimension on the field diagram.

But, with that being said, rule supplement 8 does state if the batter is forward in the box, the catcher may move forward without penalty.

[IRISHMAFIA]

RULE does state that the catcher may not be out of the box prior to the release of the pitch.

RS for FP makes an allowance that if the batter moves up to the front of the BB, the catcher may move closer to the plate. Please note, that means that the batter must be in the box and "set" before the catcher can move up. If not (and this is something I would do because I like playing mind games), I would always enter the BB in the front and then step back when the pitcher steps on the PP.

Personally, I don't care where the batter is and neither should the catcher. This allowance really doesn't make any sense since the pitcher should be throwing to the strike zone, not the batter. Yeah, I know the pitcher may try to fool the batter with a pitch that ends up in the dirt, but that is the battery's problem and shouldn't be supported with a special interpretation. But like I said, that is purely a personal opinion, not that of the rules.

[Tex]

Good discussion and comments, but keep in mind what the origional question is:
"Can an illegal pitch be called if the batter is not in the batter's box while the pitcher is doing illegal motions standing on the pitching plate?"

Are HugoTafurst and myself the only umpires who may call an illegal pitch?