Illegal Pitches???

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

For the sake of conversation

On the "double touch"...

I'm not sure that would be an Illegal Pitch either, because........

As soon as she seperated her hands the first time (with the batter out of the box), you would have a Quick-pitch which is a dead ball and all subsequent action is cancelled - so the second touch didn't happen!

Yes, but what about the pitcher who takes her position on the plate with hands together, waits for the batter, takes her signal, and then separates. I HAVE seen this - and have had a partner IP it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Yes, but what about the pitcher who takes her position on the plate with hands together, waits for the batter, takes her signal, and then separates. I HAVE seen this - and have had a partner IP it.

I agree with your partner and not have waited for the separation.

And yes, it is 10' deep. Tried to have it changed a couple years ago, but ASA folks wouldn't buy it.

[Tex]

IRISHMAFIA
I share the same views. There is nothing in the rule book that states the batter has to be in the batter's box before an illegal pitch can be called. Keep in mind, illegal motions were made by the pitcher while standing on the pitcher's plate waiting for the batter to enter the batter's box.

What do you do if a runner (any base) steps off the base during this time?

How can the umpire call the runner out for leaving the base early and not call any illegal pitches? Both the runner and the pitcher were waiting for the batter to enter the batter's box.

Why reward the pitcher (defense) and not the runner (offense)?

[IRISHMAFIA]

I guess I should also add that I'm not suggesting an umpire go looking for boogers. Remember, the umpire can suspend play at any time especially to turn and direct the batter to the box

And example to what Tex is referring happened a few years ago to UCLA while Sue Enquist was still in the 3B box. Pitcher was in the circle, and the runner on 3B wondered off the base supposedly to clear a stone in the basepath. 3B umpire immediate killed the ball and declared the runner out. Now, there was no effort on the runner's behalf to advance and neither the pitcher or batter prepared for a pitch.

If I remember correctly, the coach didn't care for the call, but didn't dispute that it was the incorrect ruling.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Yes, but what about the pitcher who takes her position on the plate with hands together, waits for the batter, takes her signal, and then separates. I HAVE seen this - and have had a partner IP it.

Don't want to rehash this entire thread, but a follow-up on this one point:

From the most recent ASA Case Book, 2011

PLAY 6.1-3
May Fl take the pitching position with the hands already together?
RULING: No, this is illegal. Fl’s hands must be apart when stepping onto the pitcher’s plate and
while taking the signal. An illegal pitch should be called as soon as the violation occurs. (6-IA)

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Don't want to rehash this entire thread, but a follow-up on this one point:

From the most recent ASA Case Book, 2011

PLAY 6.1-3
May Fl take the pitching position with the hands already together?
RULING: No, this is illegal. Fl’s hands must be apart when stepping onto the pitcher’s plate and
while taking the signal. An illegal pitch should be called as soon as the violation occurs. (6-IA)

But is she taking the pitching position if the catcher is not yet in a position to catch a pitched ball?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

But is she taking the pitching position if the catcher is not yet in a position to catch a pitched ball?

And if you read the citation, it had nothing to do with the catcher's location.

I agree that the pitcher cannot be in the pitching position until the catcher is in position. However, what do you do when the pitcher still steps on the PP with the hands together when the catcher enters the box, hesitates (take signals) and then separates and pitches? Would that be an IP or a NP?

[Tex]

a) Also add that some umpires state that the "Batter must be in the batter's box" before an illegal pitch can be called. Please state any rule in any rule book that states this.
b) Suppose the catcher is in the catcher's box. What do you do? Are the illegal motions still ignored because the batter is not in the batter's box?

[ronald]

in the case book cited, does the phrase take the pitchers position ... mean be in it when all parameters are met, ie the catcher in position? i guess we need to get out the real big dictionary to see all the definitions for take.

[Tex]

What are the "all parameters are met" besides the catcher in position? Indicate supporting rule.

I believe most of us have been to clinics and have seen video(s) on illegal pitching. Most videos are focused only on the pitcher doing illegal motions, such as: stepping onto the pitching plate with hands together, hands double touching while on the pitching plate, etc. We all say illegal pitching.

Now if the same video(s) could be expanded to include the batter's box, and now observe that the batter is not in the batter's box, is the pitch still illegal? Again where is the supporting rule that states the batter has to be in the batter's box before the illegal pitch can be called?