Catcher's Position

[IRISHMAFIA]

ASA Men's SP

1 out, 3-2 count on RH batter, R1 on 2B. As the pitcher begins his delivery, the catcher steps into the LH batter's box hoping to short hop the pitch in case the runner attempts a steal.

The batter noticed the catcher as the pitch passed through the strike zone and just behind the plate and R1 takes off for 3B.

Your call/thoughts?

[BretMan]

My thought is...it looks like there is a hole in the rule book!

If this is a violation 6-6-A, there doesn't seem to be any penalty associated with it. Editorial gaffe?

[UmpireErnie]

Bret, your right 6-6-A has no penalty associated with it, however, 6-6-A basically duplicates 6-4-A which states that F1 shall not release a pitch until all defensive players are positioned in fair territory except that F2 must be in the catcher's box. 6-4-A does have a rule book penalty, it is an illegal pitch.

If the batter swings or otherwise makes contact with the illegal pitch, what you see is what you get. Otherwise, ball to the batter. (Remember we are talking about slow pitch here.)

My guess is that 6-6-A has no penalty because the infraction is really on the pitcher for releasing the pitch after F2 steps out of the catcher's box. IPs are charged to the pitcher, not the catcher.

The next thing I can see happening in this play is catchers obstruction when the batter tries to swing at the illegal pitch and the bat makes contact with F2 who is standing in the opposite batters box as the pitch arrives. Not smart.

[BretMan]

I suppose the next issue might be that the catcher moving into the LH batter's box could be considered as "a position in the batter's line of vision" (6-4-B). Then you would have to eject him!

By the way, this is also an illegal pitch, even though it is not a violation by the pitcher. So that kind of conflicts with your logic of why no penalty is associated with 6-6-B. A "non-pitcher" could violate 6-6-A or B.

[NCASAUmp]

Illegal pitch (6-4-A), catcher's obstruction unlikely since ball was already through the strike zone, ball 4 (7-5-E), the ball remains live (8-1-C-1).

[GoRedSox]

What rule set are you guys using? ASA the rule is 6-5-A/B. Please remember to note what rule set you are using.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by GoRedSox

What rule set are you guys using? ASA the rule is 6-5-A/B. Please remember to note what rule set you are using.

Irish already identified the ruleset in the OP: ASA slow pitch (designated "SP" for short).

If you're talking about fast pitch or modified pitch, yes.

Slow pitch is 6-4-A.

[GoRedSox]

NCASA
Thanks, since we were talking about stealing I assume it was about fast pitch.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by GoRedSox

NCASA
Thanks, since we were talking about stealing I assume it was about fast pitch.

Not a problem. Welcome to the board!

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by GoRedSox

NCASA
Thanks, since we were talking about stealing I assume it was about fast pitch.

I don't know when it happened , but at some point someone decided that game of slow pitch needed stealing added .

Go figure?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

I don't know when it happened , but at some point someone decided that game of slow pitch needed stealing added .

Go figure?

I like it when I'm behind the plate. They no longer stick Bubba back there to catch, and instead put someone who keeps the ball away from my shins.

[MD Longhorn]

Technically, unless there is a rule supplement to fill this hole, we don't have an IP - but we do have an ejection. Judgement would be tough, though, to come up with exactly the situation described. With the catcher up and moving forward, right into the umpire's line of sight, it seems we'd most likely have ball four here.

[IRISHMAFIA]

There is a missing penalty for this rule (6SP.6.A).

This should be corrected this year.

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by BretMan

I suppose the next issue might be that the catcher moving into the LH batter's box could be considered as "a position in the batter's line of vision" (6-4-B). Then you would have to eject him!

By the way, this is also an illegal pitch, even though it is not a violation by the pitcher. So that kind of conflicts with your logic of why no penalty is associated with 6-6-B. A "non-pitcher" could violate 6-6-A or B.

OK my brother now this is simply splitting hairs because obviously you and I have the same call here. But just for fun debate... I believe it IS a violation by F1 because it is not illegal for F2 to be out of the catcher's box until F1 releases a pitch. The action which triggers the penalty is F1 releasing the pitch this is why I say the infraction is considered to be on F1 even if it was the fault of another defensive player. In the scorebook, the IP is gonna be charged to F1.