Obs/int

[jr131981]

just read the OBS thread and thought id ask how others would handle this situation

what happens if 2 umpires call out 2 opposing calls on the same play and both are adamant they are right?

inspired by this situation runner on 1st, groundball to the 2nd baseman. she charges the ball and stops in the middle of the basepath, as shes bending over, the runners arm makes contact with the fielders glove. im PU and i see the BU not call anything right away so i jump in and call INT. after the game, my partner was pretty adamant that i missed the call, and it was OBS. his thought was the fielder intentionally got in the way of the runner..... i told him i could see that point of view if the fielder has to subsequently move to the side to field the ball after the contact but when she doesnt move an inch, in any direction, after the contact, to field the ball, there is no way you can call OBS.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by jr131981

just read the OBS thread and thought id ask how others would handle this situation

what happens if 2 umpires call out 2 opposing calls on the same play and both are adamant they are right?

inspired by this situation runner on 1st, groundball to the 2nd baseman. she charges the ball and stops in the middle of the basepath, as shes bending over, the runners arm makes contact with the fielders glove. im PU and i see the BU not call anything right away so i jump in and call INT. after the game, my partner was pretty adamant that i missed the call, and it was OBS. his thought was the fielder intentionally got in the way of the runner...... i told him i could see that point of view if the fielder has to subsequently move to the side to field the ball after the contact but when she doesnt move an inch, in any direction, after the contact, to field the ball, there is no way you can call OBS.

The defender is allowed to set up anywhere, even intentionally in the basepath as long as that is where they can field the ball

[jr131981]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The defender is allowed to set up anywhere, even intentionally in the basepath as long as that is where they can field the ball

i understand the ruling, what i dont understand is what happens when 2 umps call 2 opposing calls on the same play and believe they are correct

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by jr131981

i understand the ruling, what i dont understand is what happens when 2 umps call 2 opposing calls on the same play and believe they are correct

If it were baseball the UIC would decide which was correct.

Your mileage may vary in softball.

[derwil]

Couple things here......

1) If I'm BU and a PU comes and calls INT on a play at the bases, there had better be a need for ambulances and body bags. If not, the PU is going to get an earfull after the game or between innings. That IS NOT the PU's call unless all hell breaks loose. Right or wrong BU has to make that decision.

2) Irish is correct (anyone surprised?) that the defender can go anywhere to field the ball and is protected to do so, even/especially in the base path. While the PU had the correct call according to the scenario you have stated in the OP, he should have (using a basketball term) "swallowed his whistle" and let the BU explain why he called it the way he did. Maybe something else happened, who knows.

3) IF both umpires call opposite rulings on the play, you have uncorked 10 lbs of crap out of the perverbial goose. Now, you gotta put the crap back in. Conference and put all the information on the table. Figure out who had the best angle and try to come together on the correct call. It should be the BU call - since the INT comes with a dead ball, runners would be placed at 1st and second and you are both likely to get a butt chewing from the DC. If the BU submits to the PU, you've got an out, the B/R at first and a butt chewing coming from the OC.

If both of you persist and cannot come to an agreement, then call your assignor and tell them you're not ready for this caliber of ball and go back to 6U park ball. You have got to be able to make a decision, even if the decision is to be wrong. Arguing with your parttner does no one any good and makes the both of you look like crap.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by derwil

Couple things here......

1) If I'm BU and a PU comes and calls INT on a play at the bases, there had better be a need for ambulances and body bags. If not, the PU is going to get an earfull after the game or between innings. That IS NOT the PU's call unless all hell breaks loose. Right or wrong BU has to make that decision.

I do not necessarily agree with this. I don't care if there are 12 umpires on the field, you are never going to be able to cover every angle on every play. They cannot even do it with cameras.

If any umpire sees INT or OBS (and I'm not talking about guessing), they should call it. A BU is trapped behind a play cannot always see everything that is in front of the players including facial expressions. Whereas, the PU is supposed to come into the IF when there are no runners in scoring position to observe the play and aid the BU in the umpire duties. And remember, this wasn't a play at a base, it was a fielder attempting to field a batted ball.

While I agree there are certain boundaries for umpires to adhere, rulings on INT & OBS, IMO are not violations you simply overlook. Again, I'm not talking about something questionable, but something with which there is little doubt. But for an umpire to say s/he didn't make a call because that "wasn't my call" is a (showing age) cop out for not making the tough decision.

2) Irish is correct (anyone surprised?) that the defender can go anywhere to field the ball and is protected to do so, even/especially in the base path. While the PU had the correct call according to the scenario you have stated in the OP, he should have (using a basketball term) "swallowed his whistle" and let the BU explain why he called it the way he did. Maybe something else happened, who knows.

But then it is too late. The BU didn't make a call to explain. OP stated that he waited to give the BU time to make a call which never came. Was it a brain freeze, didn't have a great angle or what? As noted, the PU saw and made the right call. It is obvious the BU didn't know what he was doing.

What do you tell the teams that are paying you to officiate the ball game? "Sorry, my partner isn't qualified, but I cannot make a call in his territory?"

It is this thought process that perpetuates the myths like there must be contact for INT or OBS to be called or that umpires take it upon themselves to let the players determine the outcome by not making the tough calls.

3) IF both umpires call opposite rulings on the play, you have uncorked 10 lbs of crap out of the perverbial goose. Now, you gotta put the crap back in. Conference and put all the information on the table. Figure out who had the best angle and try to come together on the correct call. It should be the BU call - since the INT comes with a dead ball, runners would be placed at 1st and second and you are both likely to get a butt chewing from the DC. If the BU submits to the PU, you've got an out, the B/R at first and a butt chewing coming from the OC.

Someone is going to get an earful and, unfortunately, they are not going to care that you got the call correct. Another good reason to adhere to the prescribed mechanics and not have this issue become a reality.

[jr131981]

thanks for all the replies, much appreciated