When is the ball past the fielder?

[Rachel]

R1 on 2nd base. The SS and 2nd baseman are playing normal playing depth a step or two behind the baseline, but if you draw a line between them that line is about 7-8' in front of 2nd base. (I hope this is a good visualization)

A 2 hop screamer is hit up the middle and R1 is hit with the ball a step off of 2nd. There was no way either the SS or 2nd baseman were going to get to the ball.

Do we have an out?

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by Rachel

R1 on 2nd base. The SS and 2nd baseman are playing normal playing depth a step or two behind the baseline, but if you draw a line between them that line is about 7-8' in front of 2nd base. (I hope this is a good visualization)

A 2 hop screamer is hit up the middle and R1 is hit with the ball a step off of 2nd. There was no way either the SS or 2nd baseman were going to get to the ball.
Do we have an out?

I don't have an out.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

I don't have an out.

Disagree.

The theory of using the line between two fielders is, to the best of my knowledge, only used for determining if an umpire was hit by a batted ball before it passed a fielder. It has no bearing on a runner being hit.

The interference rule regarding a runner being hit by a fair batted ball (8-7-K) makes no allowance for a fielder being able to make a play, only that the ball has not passed a fielder, excluding the pitcher.

This play is probably HTBT, but as I visualise it from the OP, I've got interference and an out.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by Andy

Disagree.
This play is probably HTBT, but as I visualise it from the OP, I've got interference and an out.

Who was interferred with?

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

Who was interferred with?

It does not matter......the ball had not passed an infielder....

See ASA 8-7 K

K. When a runner is struck with a fair untouched batted ball while not in contact with a base and before it passes another infielder excluding the pitcher, or if it passes an infielder and another fielder has an opportunity to make an out.

The rule does not stipulate anything other than this. ASA has never subscribed to the "String Theory" to my knowledge.

Also see RS33.

Joel

[CecilOne]

It looks like the OP question is more about geometry than rule. As described, the fielders are behind the "base line", but possibly closer to HP than 2nd base. The line between does not matter, but the distance from HP might.

The OP Q asks how to define "passes". A runner on 2nd is further from HP than F3 and F5, so "past" them. If F4 & F6 are playing inside the base line, (as if expecting a bunt), the runner on 2nd is "past" them. All that is based on distance from HP and it is geometrically possible to be outside the base line and be closer to HP than 2nd base.

I think that determines the rule application unless there is an interp which says anything about how close to the "passed" fielder the ball has to be.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

It looks like the OP question is more about geometry than rule. As described, the fielders are behind the "base line", but possibly closer to HP than 2nd base. The line between does not matter, but the distance from HP might.

The OP Q asks how to define "passes". A runner on 2nd is further from HP than F3 and F5, so "past" them. If F4 & F6 are playing inside the base line, (as if expecting a bunt), the runner on 2nd is "past" them. All that is based on distance from HP and it is geometrically possible to be outside the base line and be closer to HP than 2nd base.

I think that determines the rule application unless there is an interp which says anything about how close to the "passed" fielder the ball has to be.

Exactly Cecil.

F5 is probably less than 60' from HP and R1 is probably closer to 80'. Did it pass an infielder? Depends on your perspective.

I think we need to make a decision as to whether or not interfence actually occurred and not just read the black and white rule.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

F5 is probably less than 60' from HP and R1 is probably closer to 80'.

84 ft 10 in to center of 2nd

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

84 ft 10 in to center of 2nd

But who's counting?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

84 ft 10 in to center of 2nd

If R1 were standing in the center of second, we'd probably be having a different discussion.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

84 ft 10 in to center of 2nd

I was assuming she moved a little bit.

[ronald]

I have no out for the op. the ball has passed an imaginary line drawn from where the 1b and 3rd baseman normally stand in fp.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by ronald

I have no out for the op. the ball has passed an imaginary line drawn from where the 1b and 3rd baseman normally stand in fp.

I did not see a smiley face.....but hope you are joking.

ASA does not recognize any sort of "String" theory.

The ball actually has to pass and infielder......in Rachel's OP.....it did not.

The ball is dead and the runner is out. Yes......this is going by the black and white of the rule. If ASA wants me to judge anything else, they can create a case play or interpretation in the UM.

Joel

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

84 ft 10 in to center of 2nd

It is actually 84' 10 and 1/4"

Joel

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

It is actually 84' 10 and 1/4"

Joel

again I say, But who's counting"