ASA 2011 Rule Book Question

[pdm54]

Rule 8, sec.1 THE BATTER BECOMES A BATTER-RUNNER
E. When a fair batted ball strikes the person, attached equipment, or clothing of an umpire or runner:
6. Touches a runner in contact with a base.
EFFECT: The runner is not out. The ball is live or dead depending on the
position of the fielder closest to the base.

Can someone clarify what makes it a live or dead ball? I'm confused.

[pdm54]

Never mind, I answered my own question. It depends on whether the fielder is in front of the bag/runner or behind it/her.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by pdm54

Never mind, I answered my own question. It depends on whether the fielder is in front of the bag/runner or behind it/her.

You're correct.

Bear in mind that ASA does not include the pitcher in this category.

Welcome to the forum!

[clevbrown]

FYI pdm54 I had this happen to me earlier in the year and I called it wrong. AFter looking at the rule book that evening, I found this is one of those rules that are different between baseball and softball. In baseball the runner is NOT protected by the base, but in softball they are protected while on the base.

A further question this brings up....

R1 ar 2nd, R2 and 1st. Batter hits a ground ball past the pitcher and hits R1 while standing on 2nd. The umpire feels the SS was moving behind 2nd base to make a play and still had the oppurtunity to make a play.

Per ASA 8.1.E.6 the runner is not out. Also, the ball is dead since the runner was in front of an infielder who still had a play on the ball.

The question is what do you do with the batter and the 2 base runners? I do not see this explained in the ASA rules.

Personally, I would give the batter 1st, and move the base runners to 2nd and 3rd becasue they are forced. Is that correct?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by clevbrown

FYI pdm54 I had this happen to me earlier in the year and I called it wrong. AFter looking at the rule book that evening, I found this is one of those rules that are different between baseball and softball. In baseball the runner is NOT protected by the base, but in softball they are protected while on the base.

A further question this brings up....

R1 ar 2nd, R2 and 1st. Batter hits a ground ball past the pitcher and hits R1 while standing on 2nd. The umpire feels the SS was moving behind 2nd base to make a play and still had the oppurtunity to make a play.

Per ASA 8.1.E.6 the runner is not out. Also, the ball is dead since the runner was in front of an infielder who still had a play on the ball.

No, that isn't the deciding factor. RS #44 clearly notes that live or dead ball depends on whether the closest defender (pitcher is not excluded) to the base, not necessarily one making or having a play available.

The question is what do you do with the batter and the 2 base runners? I do not see this explained in the ASA rules.

Personally, I would give the batter 1st, and move the base runners to 2nd and 3rd becasue they are forced. Is that correct?

Yes. That is also in RS #44.

[clevbrown]

Thanks IRISHMAFIA. I was looking at the rules and not the Rule Supplement. Now that you have pointed me to the RS, you are correct, it is well spelled out.

Thanks

[pdm54]

Thanks for the input everyone. RS #44 pretty well sums it up, however is the pitcher excluded or not?

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Bear in mind that ASA does not include the pitcher in this category.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

RS #44 clearly notes that live or dead ball depends on whether the closest defender (pitcher is not excluded) to the base, not necessarily one making or having a play available.

The other scenarios preceding #6 all exclude the pitcher unless touched by the ball so in my limited experience I would think she would be excluded. I'm still open for differing opinions though.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by pdm54

Thanks for the input everyone. RS #44 pretty well sums it up, however is the pitcher excluded or not?

The other scenarios preceding #6 all exclude the pitcher unless touched by the ball so in my limited experience I would think she would be excluded. I'm still open for differing opinions though.

In my opinion, the pitcher is excluded in determining whether it has already passed an infielder. The likelihood that the pitcher would ever be the nearest fielder is extremely small, but to be consistent with the other rules regarding a runner hit by an untouched batted ball, the pitcher should not be taken into consideration when judging whether a batted ball has passed an infielder.

I could be wrong. Any other thoughts?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

In my opinion, the pitcher is excluded in determining whether it has already passed an infielder. The likelihood that the pitcher would ever be the nearest fielder is extremely small, but to be consistent with the other rules regarding a runner hit by an untouched batted ball, the pitcher should not be taken into consideration when judging whether a batted ball has passed an infielder.

I could be wrong. Any other thoughts?

You are right as it pertainS to out or safe when contacted off the base. The ball passing the infielder, however, has no bearing on a R being hit by a batted ball while in contact with the base. And the question as whether the ball was live or dead is not only answered in RS #44, but also in the OP. And in the SP game, it is quite possible the pitcher would be the closest defender to that base.