My First Ever Official Protest

[BretMan]

Starting off her answer with "Not quite sure what you're asking me" doesn't really inspire too much confidence in the answer.

In any event, at least this thread has given me some food for thought. It had always been my understanding that NFHS interprets the use of the double first base exactly the same as does ASA. Last year I put that question to our local UIC for high school softball and the answer I got was affirmative. My understanding of the ASA rule is that the fielder must be pulled completely off the base, away from it, and into foul ground before this "exception" kicks in.

Would love to see a written interpretation of what NFHS means by "pulled off the base into foul territory by an errant throw".

The folks that have to rule on this protest have limited rules experience, and I doubt that they've ever had to interpret something like this, so I'm thinking that whatever final decision they come to is pretty much going to be a crapshhot.

[Little Jimmy]

My problem is the definition for errant throw. It's sometimes taken for granted that we know of a definition. There is no definition in the Fed book or any other that I know of. Do I use "wandering" or "behaving wrongly"(from my copy of Merriam-Webster?) Or should I try "doing wrong" or "moving aimlessly" from the Random House dictionary on the desk? It would simply take a clearly defined term in the appropriate section from the powers that be to help clarify things a lot.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

My problem is the definition for errant throw. It's sometimes taken for granted that we know of a definition. There is no definition in the Fed book or any other that I know of. Do I use "wandering" or "behaving wrongly"(from my copy of Merriam-Webster?) Or should I try "doing wrong" or "moving aimlessly" from the Random House dictionary on the desk? It would simply take a clearly defined term in the appropriate section from the powers that be to help clarify things a lot.

You should note that MS said "off" the base into foul ground. The base is the base. One base, two portions. IMO, if the defender simply moved from the white to the colored portion, since neither the play, nor player came "from" foul ground

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Starting off her answer with "Not quite sure what you're asking me" doesn't really inspire too much confidence in the answer.

In any event, at least this thread has given me some food for thought. It had always been my understanding that NFHS interprets the use of the double first base exactly the same as does ASA. Last year I put that question to our local UIC for high school softball and the answer I got was affirmative. My understanding of the ASA rule is that the fielder must be pulled completely off the base, away from it, and into foul ground before this "exception" kicks in.

Would love to see a written interpretation of what NFHS means by "pulled off the base into foul territory by an errant throw".

The folks that have to rule on this protest have limited rules experience, and I doubt that they've ever had to interpret something like this, so I'm thinking that whatever final decision they come to is pretty much going to be a crapshhot.

You are correct in your understanding of the ASA interpretation; and, in Georgia, that is the same NFHS interpretation, according to our Associate Exceutive Director that has that authority.

What needs to be considered is what the double base is there for, and how it impacts on the game. By saying when the play comes from fair ground that the defense must use the white base, the bottom line is that the base simply ISN'T a 15 x 30 base at that point, that would, in effect, reward the defense for making an errant throw!! No, the errant throw provision is, and always was, intended solely to reinstate the "safety" base intent, and not then force the fielder to now recross the runner's path and go back to the white base!!

So, don't reward the bad throw, and don't force the safety base to become a danger base. Makes sense, doesn't it?? Should be that simple.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BretMan

The folks that have to rule on this protest have limited rules experience, and I doubt that they've ever had to interpret something like this, so I'm thinking that whatever final decision they come to is pretty much going to be a crapshhot.

Why in the world would a league ever have people with "limited rules experience" ruling on a rules protest? That's about the worst thing I've heard in a while.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Why in the world would a league ever have people with "limited rules experience" ruling on a rules protest? That's about the worst thing I've heard in a while.

Is the village idiot ever truly aware that they're the village idiot?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Is the village idiot ever truly aware that they're the village idiot?

I'm no English major, but did you just mix a singular subject with a plural pronoun???

Just wonderin..

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

I'm no English major, but did you just mix a singular subject with a plural pronoun???

Just wonderin..

Yes, I absolutely did! Whatcha gonna do 'bout that?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Yes, I absolutely did! Whatcha gonna do 'bout that?

Have a Martini and think about it...

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

Have a Martini and think about it...

I'll drink to that. I'll even buy the first round.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

I'm no English major, but did you just mix a singular subject with a plural pronoun???

Just wonderin..

Plural pronouns are the new PC-gender-neutral singular pronouns. Haven't you read your ASA rule book lately?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Plural pronouns are the new PC-gender-neutral singular pronouns. Haven't you read your ASA rule book lately?

Yeah, when did they make that change? I seem to recall the book always using "he."

[Andy]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Yeah, when did they make that change? I seem to recall the book always using "he."

I have the opposite issue....whenever I teach or train, I tend to use "she" when referring to players.

Most of the ball that I do is JO, HS, or College FP...all girls or womens....

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Yeah, when did they make that change? I seem to recall the book always using "he."

I dunno... a few years ago. Mike made fun of me objecting to the trashing of the language for PC purposes.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Why in the world would a league ever have people with "limited rules experience" ruling on a rules protest? That's about the worst thing I've heard in a while.

Because we live in an imperfect world?

Because the league's board is made up of volunteers and they have to take what they can get?

The guy who has to rule on this is their "umpire director". He is a former coach who, when he took this position three years ago, took it seriously enough to actually go through the state high school umpire certification classes and has retained his certification since then, attending all the mandatory annual classes and clinics.

But just looking at all the varying answers here- from experienced umpires that have been around a lot longer than three years- I would say the umpire director's experience on this particular point would be called "limited" (probably more like "non-existent").