Protest Accepted...Now What???

[ABC Coach]

I won't go into how pathetic our situation is here, but needless to say we have a lot of work to do before we can ever call our league "decent". During a game this weekend, one of the new refs went haywire and couldn't figure out how to stop blowing his whistle. He called 5 techs on one team in the first quarter!!! Sometime thereafter the game was called off.

The game was protested and both teams involved agreed that the ref was way out of line. I wasn't there, but as head of the referee commitee, they want me to make some decisions. The chairman of the league has accepted the protest as valid. Should we play the game again? If not, what is the standard procedure for handling these types of things?

And just so you know, I've called an "emergency" referee clinic to try to straighten out this mess once and for all.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by ABC Coach

I won't go into how pathetic our situation is here, but needless to say we have a lot of work to do before we can ever call our league "decent". During a game this weekend, one of the new refs went haywire and couldn't figure out how to stop blowing his whistle. He called 5 techs on one team in the first quarter!!! Sometime thereafter the game was called off.

The game was protested and both teams involved agreed that the ref was way out of line. I wasn't there, but as head of the referee commitee, they want me to make some decisions. The chairman of the league has accepted the protest as valid. Should we play the game again? If not, what is the standard procedure for handling these types of things?

And just so you know, I've called an "emergency" referee clinic to try to straighten out this mess once and for all.

Coach:

You need to give us more details before anybody can really comment.

MTD, Sr.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ABC Coach

The game was protested and both teams involved agreed that the ref was way out of line. I wasn't there, but as head of the referee commitee, they want me to make some decisions. The chairman of the league has accepted the protest as valid.

Did anybody bother asking the ref for his side of the story? Or are you just gonna hang him without doing so?

Just wondering......

You'll never keep officials in your league if you don't back them. And that's pretty much universal.

[JRutledge]

You need to dissolve the league if you cannot allow the officials to do their job. Or better yet, any official in miles should not work your league at all if you are not going to trust their judgment. That is why I never will understand why officials even bother working these leagues in the first place. And please do not tell me they can learn how to officiate.

Peace

[rockyroad]

I think ABC is in a little bit different situation than what most of us are in. Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't you (ABC) helping to run a league in Malawi, while serving as a missionary there?

I don't think this can be chalked up as a "normal" association problem.

My advice, ABC: Talk to the officials involved in that game - if you haven't already done so. Not just the guy who called all the T's, but his partner(s) also. Get their side of the story, and then meet with the league Director and the two coaches involved (if possible) and discuss the whole situation. If the official was out of line, tell him so after all these meetings, and do it in a way that will help him get better. If the coaches were the ones out of line (or players) let the league Director hear that from you.

[Nevadaref]

Tell Joey C to calm down or you'll stop assigning him games in your league.

[ABC Coach]

Yes, rockyroad, you've remembered correctly my situation. Just for clarification...our league here was started two years ago. There's never been a certified referee to call a game in this league...EVER. I'm the only coach in the league (out of 14 teams). The refs we have are volunteers. They are all players in the league as well. Also bear in mind, that these guys didn't grow up around basketball. They don't watch NBA or NCAA. They've never seen two high school teams play one another...ever. So basketball is a relatively new thing for these guys.

That being said, I'm standing behind the refs we have as much as the rules will allow me to. When I have a rookie calling my game (while I'm coaching that is), I don't dress him down for making bad calls. I'll let it go until after the game and then quietly explain where he made some mistakes. You wouldn't believe the progress we've made in just a few weeks with these refs....nevertheless, by American standards these guys are so far off from where they need to be...it's sad.

All that aside, the game in question was called off in the 3rd quarter because the refs were tired of the players arguing all the calls. I've also heard that the refs were starting to fire back at the players with cursing and insulting language.

From the info I've been able to gather, I've told the committee that the game should not have been called off and therefore if they want to replay it, I would give my approval. IS THAT THE RIGHT THING TO DO???

I also told them that as far as the bad calls go...well, the ref is the ref. When he blows the whistle it's a foul...period. There's no justification for players yelling at the refs (even when he kicks it) and therefore calling technicals in those instances is completely acceptable.

Rockyroad, I will take your advice and deal with the two officials personally and in an encouraging manner. We (here in our league) are all going to learn from this and get better because of it.

Gentlemen, I write these posts because I need your advice. I'm trying to help these refs here along and your advice has thus far played a major role in doing that. I've even recommended that the few of them that have internet access should log on and read the posts so that they too can learn something. Thanks in advance for your help.

[Adam]

ABC, it seems the Ts were probably warranted, and frankly, if one team was making a travesty of the game by getting 5 Ts that quickly, suspending it may have been a good idea.

Now, if the league commish thinks the "protest" was valid, I would continue the game from where it was called off, with all technical fouls standing as called.

IIRC, these players have a tendency to spout off to the officials and the only remedy for that is to call T's and have them backed by the league.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ABC Coach

Yes, rockyroad, you've remembered correctly my situation. Just for clarification...our league here was started two years ago. There's never been a certified referee to call a game in this league...EVER. I'm the only coach in the league (out of 14 teams). The refs we have are volunteers. They are all players in the league as well. Also bear in mind, that these guys didn't grow up around basketball. They don't watch NBA or NCAA. They've never seen two high school teams play one another...ever. So basketball is a relatively new thing for these guys.

There is the problem right there. You get what you pay for. If you have people that are doing this and play in the league, you obviously are not getting very experienced or trained people in the first place. And that means that the players and coaches in question really need to behave.

Originally Posted by ABC Coach

That being said, I'm standing behind the refs we have as much as the rules will allow me to. When I have a rookie calling my game (while I'm coaching that is), I don't dress him down for making bad calls. I'll let it go until after the game and then quietly explain where he made some mistakes. You wouldn't believe the progress we've made in just a few weeks with these refs....nevertheless, by American standards these guys are so far off from where they need to be...it's sad.

Basketball is played all over the world. What does America have to do with this situation? It seems to me like you need to set a higher level of conduct if the participants are not used to a set of rules. And there are other sports that have conduct standards. Hell, soccer (or football) has rules of conduct.

Originally Posted by ABC Coach

All that aside, the game in question was called off in the 3rd quarter because the refs were tired of the players arguing all the calls. I've also heard that the refs were starting to fire back at the players with cursing and insulting language.

From the info I've been able to gather, I've told the committee that the game should not have been called off and therefore if they want to replay it, I would give my approval. IS THAT THE RIGHT THING TO DO???

No it is not in my opinion. Because what you have just done is allowed everyone to feel that they can behave in ways that are inappropriate and they benefit if the official does one thing wrong. I think that is a terrible precedent that you will set. I am not sure the official was right, but then again were the participants right too?

Originally Posted by ABC Coach

I also told them that as far as the bad calls go...well, the ref is the ref. When he blows the whistle it's a foul...period. There's no justification for players yelling at the refs (even when he kicks it) and therefore calling technicals in those instances is completely acceptable.

Then why replay the game?

Originally Posted by ABC Coach

Gentlemen, I write these posts because I need your advice. I'm trying to help these refs here along and your advice has thus far played a major role in doing that. I've even recommended that the few of them that have internet access should log on and read the posts so that they too can learn something. Thanks in advance for your help.

Since you are asking, you are receiving. It is ultimately up to you do decide what is right here. We are not there. But you did ask for opinions, so that means that some will think playing the game is not right. After all these are games, not issues of national security. Playing sports should always be viewed as a privilege and if the participants cannot contort themselves appropriately, then they should pay the consequences. And if you want a standard from your officials, either hire real people that officiate, or train the guys you have better. You cannot on one hand get upset about someone putting this to "American standard" and then use that same standard for how the official behaved. Remember, you said these were players that happen to volunteer to officiate. That sounds bad from the beginning just for the reasons that they already have some personal interaction with the players that is not necessarily good or without bias.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ABC Coach

All that aside, the game in question was called off in the 3rd quarter because the refs were tired of the players arguing all the calls.

And I'd have done the exact same thing. And I'd have instructed any officials working for me to do the exact same thing. Your player problem is bigger than your official problem, and that's the area that you should be concentrating on first.

Players act. Officials react. That's universal.

Saying a ref went "haywire" because of the abuse that he was receiving tells me you're looking at your problem from a coach's aspect, not an official's. Deal with your core problem and instill some self-discipline in your players first. Sub-par officiating isn't indigenous to your area. That's universal also. You have to teach the people in your league how to deal with it while working on up-grading officiating skills at the same time.

It ain't easy...but if you don't have officials, you don't have much of a league either. All of this needs to be explained to your league executive also.

Jmo fwiw.

[Tio]

You have some work to do training your officials. But, you can't uphold a protest. The NCAA does not allow protests... not sure whether NFHS has a similar rule.

But 5 technicals in the first quarter is a lot. And probably deserves to be addressed at both sides.

[ABC Coach]

Good....I appreciate the opinions and advice. Someone said that I was looking at it from a coach's point of view rather than an official's. You were right. After reading everything above, I believe it will be in the league's best interest to stand behind the refs on this one and show the players exactly what the standard is when it comes to showing respect for the refs.

FIBA does allow protests to be made. Since I have never heard of such a thing, that's why I'm trying to find out what is the proper procedure for dealing with protests. If anyone knows, please fill me in.

[Jurassic Referee]

If it's any consolation, help is on the way.

LeBron James Speaks Out Against Terrible Conditions Of Referee Camps | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

It's true, it's true.....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ABC Coach

FIBA does allow protests to be made. Since I have never heard of such a thing, that's why I'm trying to find out what is the proper procedure for dealing with protests. If anyone knows, please fill me in.

Afaik, a protest in any ruleset is never allowed unless there is a mis-application or mis-interpretation of a written rule. In your situation, those criteria aren't applicable. Technical fouls are always a judgment to be made by the calling official. Just because that judgment might be considered faulty or suspect doesn't mean that the rules haven't been followed correctly.

That's why I'd doubt that you'd ever see a protest allowed against a judgment call under any ruleset in any sport. You might see an announcement that poor judgment was used, but you won't see any action taken against that poor judgment except maybe trying to ensure that it doesn't happen again.

Again jmo.

[Mark Padgett]

Maybe you should first find out what the spread was on the game.