Obstruction question...(long)

[The Max Swineberg 7]

Sorry this is so long, but I'm trying to be as detailed as possible. Umping a slow-pitch softball game, ASA rules. I'm the BU and a buddy is the PU. I did not call the obstruction play, but he overruled me. We argue after the game, friendly of course, and I'm wondering if I was wrong.

Batter/runner is heading for second on a ball she hit to left field. As she rounds second, she bumps into the second baseman. The second baseman had her left foot on the left field side of second base, with her right foot extended....almost looking like a first baseman. She was expecting to get the ball thrown to her, but it was cut off by the shortstop.

I didn't call obstruction because I felt that she left most of the base open, and I usually see player hit the inside of second when heading toward third. There was a bump and the PU called obstruction. I didn't know this until after I called the runner out in a rundown between second and third.

Was this obstruction? I mean, to me I know the baseline is determined by the runner, but the fielder was set and made no attempt to get in the path being on the left field side of the bag with just a foot on it. My buddy said any contact is obstruction.

Who's correct?

[NCASAUmp]

Yes, this was obstruction. Your buddy was right.

In ASA, anytime a fielder impedes the progress of a runner when they don't have possession of the ball and are not in the act of fielding a batted ball, it is obstruction. "Leaving a portion of the bag" makes zero difference, as the runner gets to choose his/her own path.

However, just to clarify: contact is NOT necessary to get an obstruction call.

[DeputyUICHousto]

"Attempting" has no bearing on obstruction. Obviously your partner saw enough to conclude the runner was obstructed. I'm sure there have been instances where your partner made a call that you disagreed with. If he saw obstruction then go with it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by The Max Swineberg 7

Batter/runner is heading for second on a ball she hit to left field. As she rounds second, she bumps into the second baseman. The second baseman had her left foot on the left field side of second base, with her right foot extended....almost looking like a first baseman. She was expecting to get the ball thrown to her, but it was cut off by the shortstop.

I didn't call obstruction because I felt that she left most of the base open, and I usually see player hit the inside of second when heading toward third.

Max, why would that make a difference. The runner always has the right to determine their own route, not the defender.

There was a bump and the PU called obstruction. I didn't know this until after I called the runner out in a rundown between second and third.

No problem there, that is what you are supposed to do.

Was this obstruction? I mean, to me I know the baseline is determined by the runner, but the fielder was set and made no attempt to get in the path being on the left field side of the bag with just a foot on it. My buddy said any contact is obstruction.

Who's correct?

The BASELINE is irrelevant to any rules. The BASEPATH is determined when the defense attempts to make a play (tag) on a runner. The fielder without the ball, or not in the act of fielding a batted ball, has zero rights on the field and must yield to the defense.

While contact is a pretty good indicator, it is not required.

From the information you offer here, your partner was correct in making the call and enforcing the effect when the OBS runner was put out.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The BASELINE is irrelevant to any rules. The BASEPATH is determined when the defense attempts to make a play (tag) on a runner. The fielder without the ball, or not in the act of fielding a batted ball, has zero rights on the field and must yield to the defense.

I think you meant "offense."

[The Max Swineberg 7]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Max, why would that make a difference. The runner always has the right to determine their own route, not the defender.

thanks for all the help guys. Believe me the PU and I are good friends and it wasn't really an argument.

Irish, he kind of mentioned the same thing as you did here. I don't want to sound absurd, but what I said to him and what I'll say here is where do you draw the line? What if a second baseman is just standing on the edge of the grass and the runner takes a wider than normal path to second and collides with the fielder? I realize this may sound crazy but when I do lower division church league ASA games, you get some crazy stuff like this happening.

Thanks Irish and others for pointing out that contact is not required. I'm not upset with my buddy or any of you guys here. We are just honestly trying to get better and making sure we are doing everything by the book.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by The Max Swineberg 7

thanks for all the help guys. Believe me the PU and I are good friends and it wasn't really an argument.

Irish, he kind of mentioned the same thing as you did here. I don't want to sound absurd, but what I said to him and what I'll say here is where do you draw the line? What if a second baseman is just standing on the edge of the grass and the runner takes a wider than normal path to second and collides with the fielder? I realize this may sound crazy but when I do lower division church league ASA games, you get some crazy stuff like this happening.

Thanks Irish and others for pointing out that contact is not required. I'm not upset with my buddy or any of you guys here. We are just honestly trying to get better and making sure we are doing everything by the book.

The runner can go wherever she wants to go. The fielder must clear out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by The Max Swineberg 7

thanks for all the help guys. Believe me the PU and I are good friends and it wasn't really an argument.

Irish, he kind of mentioned the same thing as you did here. I don't want to sound absurd, but what I said to him and what I'll say here is where do you draw the line? What if a second baseman is just standing on the edge of the grass and the runner takes a wider than normal path to second and collides with the fielder? I realize this may sound crazy but when I do lower division church league ASA games, you get some crazy stuff like this happening.

Thanks Irish and others for pointing out that contact is not required. I'm not upset with my buddy or any of you guys here. We are just honestly trying to get better and making sure we are doing everything by the book.

The smartest thing for any infielder to do on a hit to the OF is to move inside the diamond (if possible) unless they are a designated cut-off.

The only line an umpire needs to draw is whether the runner is attempting to reach a base safely or charging a defender in an effort to draw an OBS call.

[CecilOne]

As long as we're obstructing, plays from the weekend.

Two cases, different games, different umpires. The fielder is blocking either 3rd or HP w/o the ball. The runner slows down 10 - 12 feet from the fielder or starts a slide too early to reach the base/plate. One case called OBS, one not.
Without using HTBT, add your own qualifiers if needed, comment on the plays.

[KJUmp]

Max....good post. And you got a great lesson in obstruction that I'm sure will serve you well should it (or something similar) occur in future games.
You and your partner have the right attitude...."we're just trying to get better and making sure we're doing everything by the book."
In addition to the lesson learned here, what's important is that in the end, as a crew you got the call right....and that's good umpiring.
Sounds like your both younger and/or newer umpires, keep to the good work and the great attitude.

[The Max Swineberg 7]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Max....good post. And you got a great lesson in obstruction that I'm sure will serve you well should it (or something similar) occur in future games.
You and your partner have the right attitude...."we're just trying to get better and making sure we're doing everything by the book."
In addition to the lesson learned here, what's important is that in the end, as a crew you got the call right....and that's good umpiring.
Sounds like your both younger and/or newer umpires, keep to the good work and the great attitude.

Thanks KJ. We are newer. But our young days are long gone.

[Andy]

Since Obstruction is one of the areas that I am tasked with teaching and training almost every year...I feel compelled to chime in here.....

Some very good stuff about OBS has been posted already. It sounds like you are well on your way to learning and understanding what OBS is. Mike (IRISHMAFIA) made one really good point that I want to re-emphasize:

The only line an umpire needs to draw is whether the runner is attempting to reach a base safely or charging a defender in an effort to draw an OBS call.

The baserunner does have a right to run anywhere they want to, however, they do not have the right to run into a fielder to "draw" an obstruction call.
The more games you do, the better you will get at recognizing sneaky player moves and ruling on them accordingly. When I'm teaching obstruction, one of the things that I tell umpires is to give the benefit of the doubt to the baserunner. A fielder without the ball or not in the process of fielding a batted ball needs to be out of the way.

The play you described was textbook obstruction and your partner was correct in calling it.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by The Max Swineberg 7

What if a second baseman is just standing on the edge of the grass and the runner takes a wider than normal path to second and collides with the fielder?

Luckily, you don't have to draw the line. Unless you think the baserunner is not running the bases and is instead TRYING to run into a fielder (as in... chasing them), the baserunner can take WHATEVER path she wants - F4 in this play has to be aware of this and move.

I have, however, seen it coached where the runner tries to create an OBS situation - fielder moves and the runner deviates on purpose to contact the fielder - I have nothing on that play, much to coach's chagrin.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

As long as we're obstructing, plays from the weekend.

Two cases, different games, different umpires. The fielder is blocking either 3rd or HP w/o the ball. The runner slows down 10 - 12 feet from the fielder or starts a slide too early to reach the base/plate. One case called OBS, one not.
Without using HTBT, add your own qualifiers if needed, comment on the plays.

Things that may matter, and may differentiate these two...

1) did the runner slow down because the fielder was in the way --- or because the ball was going to beat her (or coach was yelling, "BACK!!!" ... or there was another runner there ... )? 10-12 feet seems a ways away to start slowing due to a fielder - wondering if it wasn't the latter...
2) Define starts a slide too early. One would have to judge that the early slide was BECAUSE of the fielder for this to be obs. Granted - it probably was... but not being there (sorry!), it's possible that it wasn't.