Those sneaky player comments?

[KJUmp]

My two cents......
Reread the first sentence in the last part of Dave's reply....."'The sneaky comments will ALWAYS happen." Then reread the remaining three paragraphs. Great advice there....especially when it comes dealing with a men's league.
Men's leagues are a different animal entirely. They require a somewhat different style of game management than we might employ in say HS, JO, or NCAA. At these levels you are (for the most part) tested by the coaches who are always looking to gain an edge. Men, both the coaches and players, will test you that way too, but they'll also test you in any number of ways to see if you've got some backbone. All new umps have to go through it, and it's a very fine line to walk. As already pointed out, you can't have rabbit ears, but on the other hand, you can't be used as a verbal punching back. Remember, with a men's league if you're getting crab from team A, the guys on team B are watching how you handle it. Some examples....how you handle a batter *****ing about a strike call (or pitcher/catcher about a ball call), runner/coach complaining about an out or safe call on a whacker on the bases, crap from the dugouts, coach/player showing you up etc. You're being watched by the other team...let one player, coach, team walk over you and the guys on the other side see you as fair game and will pull the same crap. You will have to learn/decide what you let pass as part of the game, and what you need to address and in what manner. Remember, you don't have to get in a nose to nose or EJ someone to show that you've got some ba**s or that you can't be intimidated. Firm, tough when you need to be...yes. Someone with a rep as having hair trigger EJ button...not so good. You have to work at managing the crap they throw in a manner that builds credibility (in their eyes) in your ability as umpire at this level.
Keep in mind that if you work a men's league you see many of the same players season after season. So learning how to handle these guys the right way early in your career is important.
For a third year guy I think you showed some gumption (which is good) with the pitcher, but the way you did it prompted the whole thing with the PU...(not good). What you want to do there is after a close out call on the bases ends an inning, don't go anywhere near the pitcher's plate, no matter how dirty it is. Not important at that moment. The important thing is after making the call hustling to your between innings position. It just avoids the inevitable.
I think if you speak to some veteran umpires here on the board or in your local association who broke in doing men's softball they'll tell you that if nothing else it taught them how to handle intimidation.

[rybo]

Knew when I heard the paid professional I made a mistake...'that's enough' or just walk away, maybe a glaring look would've been more appropriate. I can not believe how rude and nasty men's modified leagues are towards us umpires.

PS: This pitcher was the player-coach and lead prayers before the game.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

What you want to do there is after a close out call on the bases ends an inning, don't go anywhere near the pitcher's plate, no matter how dirty it is. Not important at that moment. The important thing is after making the call hustling to your between innings position. It just avoids the inevitable.

I agree with everything you said, but I do disagree with you on this one point. I'm not going to let a player or coach disrupt my routine just because we had a disagreement over a call. It can be seen as either me avoiding the player because I may have kicked the call, or I'm not brushing off the plate because I have a grudge. In a way, you're showing him up. By going ahead and brushing off the plate, you're telling the team that you're not going to let one call change how you do things, as well as that despite the disagreement, you're still going to treat him the same as any other pitcher. If the pitcher wants to discuss the play at this time, sorry, but it's too late, we're moving forward now.

Getting right back on the horse and proceeding with the game as normal is, in my opinion, the best thing you can do as the umpire.

Originally Posted by rybo

Knew when I heard the paid professional I made a mistake...'that's enough' or just walk away, maybe a glaring look would've been more appropriate. I can not believe how rude and nasty men's modified leagues are towards us umpires.

PS: This pitcher was the player-coach and lead prayers before the game.

I can totally believe it. I've been calling slow pitch for 18+ years, 14 of which were in "adult" leagues. It's amazing how petty some of those guys can be.

[KJUmp]

[I][QUOTE=NCASAUmp;763152]I agree with everything you said, but I do disagree with you on this one point. I'm not going to let a player or coach disrupt my routine just because we had a disagreement over a call. It can be seen as either me avoiding the player because I may have kicked the call, or I'm not brushing off the plate because I have a grudge. In a way, you're showing him up. By going ahead and brushing off the plate, you're telling the team that you're not going to let one call change how you do things, as well as that despite the disagreement, you're still going to treat him the same as any other pitcher. If the pitcher wants to discuss the play at this time, sorry, but it's too late, we're moving forward now.
[/I]
We're looking at this from different perspectives. And as with so many other things that happen on the field, we all have our own ways of dealing with issues that we've found work for us and based on our experience and how we view the umpire player/coach relationship and that's fine...whatever works, whatever gets the job done.
Keeping in mind that we're talking men's leagues here....
The point that I was trying to make was the pitcher being involved or not involved in a hotly contested call on the bases end an inning had nothing to do with my choosing not to sweep the pitcher's plate. It's just to avoid any more discussion on a play that has already been argued seconds earlier.
Now, someone wants to make it a point on their way out to their defensive position to swing by my between innings spot in short RF and continue chirping, well now we've got a problem that's going dealt with very quickly.
And I never show a player or coach up....which is why I'll run one in a heartbeat if they do it to me. We can argue...lets just do it the right way.

Getting right back on the horse and proceeding with the game as normal is, in my opinion, the best thing you can do as the umpire.

Never a problem.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

We're looking at this from different perspectives. And as with so many other things that happen on the field, we all have our own ways of dealing with issues that we've found work for us and based on our experience and how we view the umpire player/coach relationship and that's fine...whatever works, whatever gets the job done.
Keeping in mind that we're talking men's leagues here....
The point that I was trying to make was the pitcher being involved or not involved in a hotly contested call on the bases end an inning had nothing to do with my choosing not to sweep the pitcher's plate. It's just to avoid any more discussion on a play that has already been argued seconds earlier.
Now, someone wants to make it a point on their way out to their defensive position to swing by my between innings spot in short RF and continue chirping, well now we've got a problem that's going dealt with very quickly.
And I never show a player or coach up....which is why I'll run one in a heartbeat if they do it to me. We can argue...lets just do it the right way.

Which is why I never said you're wrong, I just said that I disagree.

No two umpires will have the exact same game management techniques. What works for me may not work for you, and vice versa.

Just wanted to toss out a different perspective on how I would handle a difficult player.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Which is why I never said you're wrong, I just said that I disagree.

No two umpires will have the exact same game management techniques. What works for me may not work for you, and vice versa.

Just wanted to toss out a different perspective on how I would handle a difficult player.

Never said you did.
BTW...how's the move to FP coming along? hope it's going well. How's all the new gear working out?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Never said you did.
BTW...how's the move to FP coming along? hope it's going well. How's all the new gear working out?

Haven't called a game yet. As soon as I got all my gear, the local league started their post-season tournaments. That's the worst time to introduce a new umpire.

Fortunately, there's a huge FP tourney near me this weekend, so I might swing by for a while.

Funny thing about the gear, though. I got the plate shoes and put them on 3 times: once to try 'em on, twice to get my plate pants fitted properly. Before I even got a chance to call a game in them, the laces broke!

Fortunately, Honig's made it right and sent me new laces.