Older, somewhat wiser, and wondering

[MD Longhorn]

The following happened before I began umpiring, a long, long, long time ago. I was playing, and our coach was about the biggest snivelling cheat ever known (and we won't mention that this was a CHURCH league).

Anyway ... wondering at what point (if any) I would have stepped in as umpire, and where you would have.

#1 team undefeated playing in round 1 of the playoffs against the 8th best team (out of 12). Everything that could go wrong did, including a catcher on the bad team losing a straight up pop fly, hit hard enough in the noggin that the ball bounced to a slowly incoming pitcher - who caught the ball. Last inning, #1 team down by 7.

Batting order (coed) B1, G1, B2, G2 ... B5, G5.
Proper batter is G3. Instead B1 comes to the plate and doubles. Other team doesn't appeal, so G2 comes to bat and walks - B3 should also walk by rule, but instead G5 walks and B3 comes to the plate and doubles clearing the bases. B1 comes up again and doubles, team down by 3 now. The other team's coach, seeing B2 step into the batters box now says, "Aw come on" although without a lot of volume. B2 homers and gets back in the box. Coach says to no one in particular, "This is ridiculous." B2 doubles, G2 gets out, B1 comes up and homers. Game over.

Yes, this is so TWP we can call it FWP ... but it happened - my 25+ year old memory of this may have missed a detail - but you get the gist.

Do you step in? Do you take, "Aw come on" or "This is ridiculous" as an appeal?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Do you step in? Do you take, "Aw come on" or "This is ridiculous" as an appeal?

Neither.

[Andy]

Agree with Cecil.

As the umpire, I have no idea what the coach is moaning about...could be his team's defensive play, my strike zone, the bad hot dog he ate......whatever..

Coach has to make some indication to me that he knows the opponent is batting out of order...at that point, I will deal with the violation.

[celebur]

This was a church league, so I very much suspect that the defensive coach had no idea of what to do. Did the league even use carded umpires during the regular season? In my experience, these kinds of leagues don't know the etiquette for how to handle such situations, and that allows cheating coaches to get away with it.

I think I would be very much inclined to ask the defensive coach if there is a problem. If he gives any response indicating that he knows they've batted out of order, then I have an appeal.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by celebur

This was a church league, so I very much suspect that the defensive coach had no idea of what to do. Did the league even use carded umpires during the regular season? In my experience, these kinds of leagues don't know the etiquette for how to handle such situations, and that allows cheating coaches to get away with it.

I think I would be very much inclined to ask the defensive coach if there is a problem. If he gives any response indicating that he knows they've batted out of order, then I have an appeal.

Then you would have joined the ranks of those that (as you so aptly put it), "have no idea what to do"!!

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Andy

Agree with Cecil.

As the umpire, I have no idea what the coach is moaning about...could be his team's defensive play, my strike zone, the bad hot dog he ate......whatever..

Coach has to make some indication to me that he knows the opponent is batting out of order...at that point, I will deal with the violation.

If I know it's directed at me, I deal with it. Otherwise, he's blowing off steam over something, and I don't know what it is. Oh well.

[ChampaignBlue]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

The following happened before I began umpiring, a long, long, long time ago. I was playing, and our coach was about the biggest snivelling cheat ever known (and we won't mention that this was a CHURCH league).

Anyway ... wondering at what point (if any) I would have stepped in as umpire, and where you would have.

#1 team undefeated playing in round 1 of the playoffs against the 8th best team (out of 12). Everything that could go wrong did, including a catcher on the bad team losing a straight up pop fly, hit hard enough in the noggin that the ball bounced to a slowly incoming pitcher - who caught the ball. Last inning, #1 team down by 7.

Batting order (coed) B1, G1, B2, G2 ... B5, G5.
Proper batter is G3. Instead B1 comes to the plate and doubles. Other team doesn't appeal, so G2 comes to bat and walks - B3 should also walk by rule, but instead G5 walks and B3 comes to the plate and doubles clearing the bases. B1 comes up again and doubles, team down by 3 now. The other team's coach, seeing B2 step into the batters box now says, "Aw come on" although without a lot of volume. B2 homers and gets back in the box. Coach says to no one in particular, "This is ridiculous." B2 doubles, G2 gets out, B1 comes up and homers. Game over.

Yes, this is so TWP we can call it FWP ... but it happened - my 25+ year old memory of this may have missed a detail - but you get the gist.

Do you step in? Do you take, "Aw come on" or "This is ridiculous" as an appeal?

I don't know, I might develop a thin skin and say "Coach! Are you making disparaging comments on my strike zone?"

[7in60]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Do you step in? Do you take, "Aw come on" or "This is ridiculous" as an appeal?

I can't believe the opposing pitcher didn't complain when he faced the same guy guys in a span of 5 batters.

I think when one team is taking advantage of another, as opposed to BOO by accident, you need to take control of the situation as an umpire by assisting with an appeal.

[ChampaignBlue]

It's because of situations like this that I always, even in the championship game of a tourney, I developed this as my standard pre-game with the coaches.

After introductions and lineup cards,

Coaches, I want a good clean fight, no hitting above the belt. Slide, go around or give yourself up, I get hard torso to torso contact I have a judgment call to make, take that outta my hands, you all have to go to work tomorrow.
Hustle in and hustle out, no clock issues OK?(if playing with a clock)
We got kids here, that's a good thing, let's keep the colorful language under our breaths or better yet come up with a team word, I myself say maalox in those situations, get's the point across and offends nobody. You don't want Timmy telling his grandma the new word he learned at the game.
Coaches, you are the only ones I want to see out here arguing a call. Complaining will get absolutely no call changed, appealing might, go to, not, yell at, the blue that made the call.
(insert ground rules for the park)
Remind your players and home take the field!