I was just wondering...

[UmpJM]

I received an e-mail a short while ago from a "new guy" in my association who asked for clarification on whether the "foul lines" were considered to be part of fair or foul territory under FED rules.

I assured him that the "foul lines" were ENTIRELY in Fair Territory and then went to look up the appropriate cite from the FED rule book.

Imagine my surprise when I could find nothing in the FED rule or case book that explicitly said the lines were in/part of fair territory.

So, I was just wondering if I am simply being dense, or if there really is nothing in the FED rules that explicitly says the lines are in fair territory.

Has anybody got a rule or case book reference?

Thanks.

JM

[waltjp]

FED 1-2-6

ART. 6 . . . On a sodded field, an unsodded area, commonly referred to as the "pitcher's mound," should have a radius of about nine feet centered 1½ feet in front of the midpoint of the front edge of the pitcher's plate. The infield and outfield, including the boundary marks from home plate to first and third and their extended foul lines, are fair ground. All other area is foul ground.

[UmpJM]

walt,

Thanks. That's what I was looking for. I think after getting to the part about the pitcher's mound I skipped the rest.

John

[waltjp]

Glad to help.

[bossman72]

JM,

This guy you speak of seems REALLY green to baseball. Make sure you take some time and help this guy out (if he wants it) so he can get where he needs to be.

[ozzy6900]

JM,

I got the same question many years ago from some new umpires. At the next clinic, I began teaching that the foul poles and the foul lines are really the fair poles and the fair lines. The students seem a bit confused at first but they get the idea after a while. I have never gotten that question since from anyone that has been through our training!

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

JM,

I got the same question many years ago from some new umpires. At the next clinic, I began teaching that the foul poles and the foul lines are really the fair poles and the fair lines. The students seem a bit confused at first but they get the idea after a while. I have never gotten that question since from anyone that has been through our training!

No different than when playing baseball as kids when a batted ball hit the plate and rolled fair. Everybody would be jumping up and down "it hit the plate, it's a foul ball".

UmpJM - let me ask this really dumb question - how did this guy get into your association without knowing one of the most basic rules of baseball? I'm not being critical but aren't all your umps patched in some form or another before they are allowed to join? My association, which has been around for over 40 years, demands that a member be an IHSA registered official BEFORE being allowed to join, and in fact must supply a photocopy of his IHSA card before being admitted. This at least guarantees that he has some amount of knowledge, and has been tested at least once before joining.

If he is patched, I would suggest like the others that you spend some time with him to make sure he understands the rules. I've seen alot of younger guys get their license because they pass the test and then never open the book again to study and refresh their understanding. I'm sure you know and probably do, that almost all of us on the forum read and reread the rules on a regular basis to keep sharp. We all make mistakes with the rules,but I guarantee you that when we do, we always go back to the book to see what it was that we missed so that we don't repeat the mistake again. Best of luck with your new member.

[UmpJM]

BigGuy,

He was really more looking for "verification" - said he believed the lines were fair, but some other umpire (no idea who) had told him it was foul.

My assoc. also requires IHSA certification/licensing, although they will provisionally accept guys who are "in process" of getting their IHSA license & help them through the process.

I met this guy at a rules meeting my assoc. had last week & my impression is he's pretty diligent about learning the rules. His first game is scheduled for tomorrow (and, if you live in Palatine, we BOTH know that ain't happenin') and I think he just wanted to verify a couple of things.

Like you, one of the things that keeps me coming back to these forums is that it forces me to challenge my own understanding of the rules and regularly revisit the rules and interpretations.

JM

[Tim C]

" . . . how did this guy get into your association without knowing one of the most basic rules of baseball?"

Again this shows regional differences. When someone joins the Portland Baseball Umpires Association it is OUR JOB to train them. We have many people that join at Rookie status that have done nothing more than watched baseball on TV.

The PBUA has been documented as the oldest official high school baseball association on the West Coast and we recruit all types of people (yes, even Little League Umpires) to join our group.

Our first and second year umpires are "licensed" for only freshman and JV games. Working a varsity "patched" game takes the passing of rules, mechanic and game management training.

BTW, we do not use the terms "license" or "patched" in this area of the country.

Tim Christensen

1st Vice President -- Rules
Portland (OR) Baseball Umpires Association

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

BigGuy,

He was really more looking for "verification" - said he believed the lines were fair, but some other umpire (no idea who) had told him it was foul.

My assoc. also requires IHSA certification/licensing, although they will provisionally accept guys who are "in process" of getting their IHSA license & help them through the process.

I met this guy at a rules meeting my assoc. had last week & my impression is he's pretty diligent about learning the rules. His first game is scheduled for tomorrow (and, if you live in Palatine, we BOTH know that ain't happenin') and I think he just wanted to verify a couple of things.

Like you, one of the things that keeps me coming back to these forums is that it forces me to challenge my own understanding of the rules and regularly revisit the rules and interpretations.

JM

I don't think there will be a game in my area for at least a week, as you already know.

For Tim C - In Illinois once you take the FED Part I test, you get an IHSA patch. Most associations in Illinois are linked to IHSA athletics, so anyone who passes the test is theoretically authorized to work any level of IHSA athletics from freshman all the way through varsity - yes varsity. The assignors know how much HS experience you have, and yes it takes some time to get varsity assignments, if you want them. Some states are different and require some other sort of skills requirement to do varsity. Once you get your first varsity assignment it will be with a more experienced umpire. Commentary after the game whether by the other ump or a head coach or the athletic director to the assignor lets the assignor know if the person is ready or not for more varsity assignments. Most of the first time varsity assignments will be non-conference games, or if later in the season maybe a game that does not have much at stake such as the two lowest placed teams. You might get it as a fill in for a last minute cancellation. Our assignor has been doing it so long he knows almost everyone on a first name basis and knows something about you based on either commentary or having seen you first hand. I also know if an ump is known as someone who can fill in in a pinch and volunteer, you'll get all the games you want. You become his go to guy. Because of my work schedule I get most of my assignments on a week to week basis.

Other states are different. In Illinois there are three levels of officials. Registered, Recognized and Certified, the highest. To get promoted to Recognized, you have to have at least two years experience, pass the Part II test, open book with an 85 and have at least three letters of recommendation, one of which has to be from a Certified level official. They are not going to hand it out lightly. To go from Recognized to Certified you have to score 90 on the Part II test, closed book, have additional years,and at least three letters of recommendation with at least one by a Certified official. Additionally, no matter what level you still have to take the Part I test EVERY year. If nothing else it insures you at least study the rules.

Knowing the rules is only one part of it. If your mechanics are not up to snuff, you won't get the recommendations. I, like most officials, do study the rules and mechanics on a regular basis. It's up to each individual.

Since you don't use the terms "license" and "patched" in your area, I can only presume there is some mechanism set up to allow promotion. The only negative issues with that are that some older and more experienced umps may for whatever reason try to deny someone who is deserving solely for selfish reasons or fall back on the "old boy network" where you have to put as many years into it as they did before you can join their ranks. It's sad, but I guarantee you it does happen. They want to protect their turf. In the end you have a lot of umpires at the highest level and a lot at the lowest level. Unless there is a way of really mentoring those at the lower level to improve and give them a chance it will be difficult to insure there will always be a supply of really qualified officials.

Really, I wish this new member all the best. What I don't want to see is having him set up to fail, which is why I urge UmpJM to really take this guy under his wing.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by Tim C

[B]
Again this shows regional differences. When someone joins the Portland Baseball Umpires Association it is OUR JOB to train them.

I wish our association was like yours. I am recently in a position of power and i'm trying to instantiate some training and what not and it's like pulling teeth with the older guys who more or less just want to "go through the motions."

Note: there has NEVER been ANY training by our chapter before I got there.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bossman72

I wish our association was like yours. I am recently in a position of power and i'm trying to instantiate some training and what not and it's like pulling teeth with the older guys who more or less just want to "go through the motions."

Note: there has NEVER been ANY training by our chapter before I got there.

My guess is that you're not alone in this. So, talk to a few people you trust and see if you can get a few people together once a week or so for several weks before the season to "talk umpiring." Prepare a very informal agenda at first -- bill, you talk about pitching rules. Joe, you discuss obstruction and interference. I'll talk about mechanics in week 3. ...

Since the word "association" has different connotations in different areas, you might not (or you might) want to use that word.

[mbyron]

Another approach: institute a training regimen for "novices" -- 2nd year guys who passed the class last year. As those guys move up, develop "advanced training" that's open to all, and within 5 years, you'll have a cadre of umpires who are used to annual training.

When they start getting the best games, everyone will want in.