Dropped third strike?

[Rita C]

This was 11-12 softball. Dropped third strike applies.

2 outs. 2 strikes on batter. No scoreboard, players not paying attention to umpire.

Uncaught third, batter doesn't run. Ball is thrown back to pitcher who gets on the rubber because she thinks there is another pitch. Coach, who is aware of the count, yells at pitcher to throw to first, which she does without disengaging rubber.

What should be the call?

Rita

[LIUmp]

You have the batter-runner out. There can be no other pitch to the batter, as his/her turn at bat has ended with the U3K. So the pitcher taking a position on the pitcher's plate means nothing in this situation.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Rita C

This was 11-12 softball. Dropped third strike applies.

2 outs. 2 strikes on batter. No scoreboard, players not paying attention to umpire.

Uncaught third, batter doesn't run. Ball is thrown back to pitcher who gets on the rubber because she thinks there is another pitch. Coach, who is aware of the count, yells at pitcher to throw to first, which she does without disengaging rubber.

What should be the call?

Rita

Rita, you may consider this insignificant, but it really isn't.

There is no "rubber" in softball. If you really think you are a softball umpire, then you should call it what SOFTBALL calls it; a pitcher's plate. Just like no mound; that is the circle.

Respect the game, use the game's terminology.

That said, it really matters NOT that the pitcher happened to be in contact with he pitcher's plate while making a play. Not a pitch, therefore not an illegal pitch. The question, like the terminology, reeks of baseball, not softball.

[marvin]

IN NFHS:

Rule 6-3, ART. 7 . . . The pitcher shall not throw to a base while a foot is in contact with the pitcher’s plate after having taken the pitching position.

In NCAA:

10.17 Throwing to a Base From the Pitcher’s Plate
The pitcher shall not throw to a base during a live ball while her foot is in contact with the pitcher’s plate after she has taken the pitching position. If the throw from the pitcher’s plate occurs during a live-ball appeal play, the appeal is canceled. Note: The pitcher may remove herself from the pitching position by stepping backward off the pitcher’s plate before separating her hands.
EFFECT—Illegal pitch. (See Rule 10.8.)

If the pitcher took her position to pitch to the next batter (not realizing that the previous batter is not out yet) on the pitcher's plate why wouldn't she have to disengage before throwing to first? Seems like a pretty reasonable softball question to me. Somebody's smell-o-meter seems to be off. It would seem that the determining factor in the above rule sets is whether the pitcher in a position to deliver a pitch.

Rita - what rule set applied to the game in question?

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by marvin

IN NFHS:



In NCAA:



If the pitcher took her position to pitch to the next batter (not realizing that the previous batter is not out yet) on the pitcher's plate why wouldn't she have to disengage before throwing to first? Seems like a pretty reasonable softball question to me. Somebody's smell-o-meter seems to be off. It would seem that the determining factor in the above rule sets is whether the pitcher in a position to deliver a pitch.

Rita - what rule set applied to the game in question?

Marvin, the situation happened in a Little League softball game but they have the same rule as NFHS. So I wondered how the same situation might be called in other rules sets.

Thank you for your answer. I'm hoping to get more answers to get a full understanding of the rule and it's application.

Rita

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Rule 6-3, ART. 7 . . . The pitcher shall not throw to a base while a foot is in contact with the pitcher’s plate after having taken the pitching position.

There is no batter yet so there can be no penalty.

Ignore it and allow the play.

Joel

[LIUmp]

Sorry I didn't make my point clear the first time.

The at bat is over, therefore when the pitcher throws to first base, the batter runner would be out. There is a play that needs to be made, and the pitcher's making it. F1 is not taking the pitching position because you would not allow her to pitch another pitch to this same batter.

At least I'd hope not.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Rita, you may consider this insignificant, but it really isn't.

There is no "rubber" in softball. If you really think you are a softball umpire, then you should call it what SOFTBALL calls it; a pitcher's plate. Just like no mound; that is the circle.

Respect the game, use the game's terminology.

That said, it really matters NOT that the pitcher happened to be in contact with he pitcher's plate while making a play. Not a pitch, therefore not an illegal pitch. The question, like the terminology, reeks of baseball, not softball.

It isn't insignificant to use the word "reeks" either.

As it happens I am a baseball umpire and I do understand that game better than I do softball. However, I am umpiring softball in a local association because the assignor respects me as an official and as an umpire and he asked me to umpire games for him.

One of the reasons he respects me is because he knows that I will do my best to learn the game and to call it as it should be called. But there are only two in the association (it's a very small association) who know the game well enough to answer the questions I have. So I come here for different explanations that will expand my knowledge.

Now the softball rulebook says that the pitcher may not throw to a base when in contact with the plate. I am trying to learn the intricacies of softball. You say it doesn't matter in this case. OK.

I will endeavor to use the correct terminology for the game if I ask more questions. It isn't a matter of respect for the game. That I show by trying to learn more about how to call the game. Using the correct terminology is respecting that it matters to you and others.

Rita

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Rita, you may consider this insignificant, but it really isn't.

There is no "rubber" in softball. If you really think you are a softball umpire, then you should call it what SOFTBALL calls it; a pitcher's plate. Just like no mound; that is the circle.

Respect the game, use the game's terminology.

That said, it really matters NOT that the pitcher happened to be in contact with he pitcher's plate while making a play. Not a pitch, therefore not an illegal pitch. The question, like the terminology, reeks of baseball, not softball.

To Rita, and anyone else insulted by the post above.

The last sentence was unnecessary, and inappropriate. I apologize for that; I had a bad day, was already short umpires (as an assignor), had to work 5 straight 16A games with teams that are ASA National caliber to free an umpire to work elsewhere, and STILL had a no-show on another site that got me cussed out numerous times that day.

Stopped and drank a few, then came home, shouldn't have posted that.

The rest of the post I stand behind. Use rulebook terminology in every possible setting, and especially only use defined terms as used in the rulebook.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I had a bad day, .

thought so.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

To Rita, and anyone else insulted by the post above.

The last sentence was unnecessary, and inappropriate. I apologize for that; I had a bad day, was already short umpires (as an assignor), had to work 5 straight 16A games with teams that are ASA National caliber to free an umpire to work elsewhere, and STILL had a no-show on another site that got me cussed out numerous times that day.

Stopped and drank a few, then came home, shouldn't have posted that.

The rest of the post I stand behind. Use rulebook terminology in every possible setting, and especially only use defined terms as used in the rulebook.

Thank you for the apology. I appreciate it.

Rita

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

To Rita, and anyone else insulted by the post above.

The last sentence was unnecessary, and inappropriate. I apologize for that; I had a bad day, was already short umpires (as an assignor), had to work 5 straight 16A games with teams that are ASA National caliber to free an umpire to work elsewhere, and STILL had a no-show on another site that got me cussed out numerous times that day.

Stopped and drank a few, then came home, shouldn't have posted that.

The rest of the post I stand behind. Use rulebook terminology in every possible setting, and especially only use defined terms as used in the rulebook.

You da man!!!