Stupid question... strike zone

[SamG]

I've got some conflicting information and know you guys would have the answer.

I'm not an ump, just a softball parent.

Regarding the strike zone... I was under the impression (and I think this is how I read the rule) it's a 'box' directly above home plate, from the armpits/numbers to the knees of the batter.

This weekend, someone (who I would trust knowing this... former NAIA coach and current NCAA 'advisor') told me if the batter is forward or back in the box, the PU "mentally" moves the plate so it's even with the batter.

For example, let's say the batter is all the way back in the box (front foot even with the back corner of the plate). A ball crosses the front corner of the plate "knee high", but drops off and hits the back corner of the plate. That's still a 'strike', right? It's the batter's responsibility to position themselves, right?

Does it matter on rule set? I wouldn't think so, but maybe this person is thinking NCAA and my DD plays NSA.

Sorry for the stupid question, but inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks

[RKBUmp]

Strike zone is over the plate, does not matter where in the box the batter stands.

[varefump]

I heard from a respected source years ago that the calling of balls and strikes can be made easier by visualizing a window 2 feet by 2 feet on the plane above the front edge of home plate. The bottom edge of the window would be in line with the middle of the batter's front knee if it were positioned at the front edge of the plate. The inside edge of the window should be 2-1/2 inches off the 'black' of the plate.

A pitch would be a strick if the ball passes through that imaginary window.

College coaches have backed up that philosophy by saying to me that the pitch should be judged as the ball passes the front edge of the plate.

This would eliminate the concern of whether the ball touched any part of the area OVER home plate. Example: soft change-up crossing the front of the plate 'high' but falling into the zone at the back of the plate. Same would go for a rise, drop, or curve ball.

This technique does works for me and I have been using it for years.

I know I will hear some arguements on this, so bring 'em on.

[SamG]

Originally Posted by varefump

I know I will hear some arguements on this, so bring 'em on.

My first argument would be in the definition of 'strike zone'...

The strike zone is that space over any part of home plate that is between the batter's armpit and the top of the batter's knees when the natural batting stance is assumed. Any part of the ball passing through this strike zone is considered a strike.

Note 'any part of home plate'. So, IMO, it could be a 'ball' on the front edge of the plate, yet a 'strike' 17" (or less) later.

BTW, above definition is from 2011 NSA rulebook.

[HugoTafurst]

As you say you are a parent, not an umpire or even a coach, here's a word of advice..

There is they way things are supposed to be and the way they are.
Yes there is a defined strike zone (which FWIW, is different in NCAA than it is in NSA) but since it is judgement, it is going to be seen differently by different umpires.
Allthough that is not the way you are supposed to call it, I have observed calls being made that seem to be consistant with what your friend has told you. That doesn't make it right, it just makes it the way it is.

If you are asking to help your son or daughter, I wouldn't be worried about splitting hairs, rather I'd be suggesting to them to observe the strike zone and adjust accoridingly.

[SamG]

Hugo-

Thanks. I am by no means surprised that different PUs call differently. I just didn't know which was "correct".

Out of curiosity, what's the NCAA strike zone?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by SamG

Hugo-

Thanks. I am by no means surprised that different PUs call differently. I just didn't know which was "correct".

Out of curiosity, what's the NCAA strike zone?

For NCAA, the upper limit is the base of the sternum.

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by SamG

Hugo-

Thanks. I am by no means surprised that different PUs call differently. I just didn't know which was "correct".

Out of curiosity, what's the NCAA strike zone?

I'm not Hugo but here's the answer to your NCAA strile zone question.

From the NCAA Rules Book:

Strike zone. The zone is the area above home plate between the
bottom of the batter’s sternum and the top of her knees when she assumes
her natural batting stance. The top of the ball must be on or within the
horizontal plane, and either side of the ball must be on or within the
vertical plane of the strike zone to be a strike unless the ball touches
the ground before reaching home plate.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

For NCAA, the upper limit is the base of the sternum.

You know what I love about this?

Untrained folks for years have been screaming to call the strike zone as it is in the book where the armpits were the lowest common physical attribute that could be seen by the umpire even though umpires were directed to bring the top of the zone down a little bit.

Now, the NCAA changes their rule citing a part of the body that cannot be used as a focal point and all of a sudden, all is good in the NCAA world, even though the umpires' strike zone is relative the same.

[SamG]

Originally Posted by MichaelVA2000

I'm not Hugo but here's the answer to your NCAA strile zone question.

From the NCAA Rules Book:

Strike zone. The zone is the area above home plate between the
bottom of the batter’s sternum and the top of her knees when she assumes
her natural batting stance. The top of the ball must be on or within the
horizontal plane, and either side of the ball must be on or within the
vertical plane of the strike zone to be a strike unless the ball touches
the ground before reaching home plate.

So if I'm reading this right, in NCAA the entire ball needs to be "within the window" as opposed to NSA where "any part of the ball" could hit the strike zone. Do I understand correctly?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by SamG

So if I'm reading this right, in NCAA the entire ball needs to be "within the window" as opposed to NSA where "any part of the ball" could hit the strike zone. Do I understand correctly?

3/4 correct
correction: 1/4 correct ....
(1/4 was my first typing, but in my rush to give a "cute answer", I misread the rule)

What I am trying to say is that in NCAA, at the top of the strike zone, the entire ball must be in the zone.

"The top of the ball must be on or within the horizontal plane"

[txump81]

I always imagine the zone as a glass box above HP. If the ball hits the glass, strike.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You know what I love about this?

Untrained folks for years have been screaming to call the strike zone as it is in the book where the armpits were the lowest common physical attribute that could be seen by the umpire even though umpires were directed to bring the top of the zone down a little bit.

Now, the NCAA changes their rule citing a part of the body that cannot be used as a focal point and all of a sudden, all is good in the NCAA world, even though the umpires' strike zone is relative the same.

Just in case you were interested:
"In its natural position the inclination of the Sternum is oblique from above, downward and forward. It is slightly convex in front and concave behind; broad above, becoming narrowed at the point where the manubrium joins the body, after which it again widens a little to below the middle of the body, and then narrows to its lower extremity. Its average length in the adult is about 17 cm., and is rather greater in the male than in the female."

Since it certainly can not be seen, I always wondered if I should check each batter before she came up to feel for the bottom.

But all in all, I like the location for strikes where I think the strenum is....

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by SamG

So if I'm reading this right, in NCAA the entire ball needs to be "within the window" as opposed to NSA where "any part of the ball" could hit the strike zone. Do I understand correctly?

The entire ball DOES NOT need to be "within the window". A strke could be called if any part of the ball passes through the strike zone.

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by txump81

I always imagine the zone as a glass box above HP. If the ball hits the glass, strike.

Sounds like a game of Angry Birds gone bad