Blown Call From This Fall

[BretMan]

Since the board seems kind of slow this weekend...thought that I would post for comment a play from a fall tournament a few months ago.

I'm the plate umpire, no runners on, base umpire in A position. Batter hits long, high fly ball that is going to land in the vicinity of the rightfield fence.

I see that my partner is pivoting in (probably should have gone out on this one) and watching the runner touch first base. I head out into the infield to watch the ball.

The ball is coming straight down near the temporary outfield fence. F9 is going back and has a shot at a catch. The fielder and the ball arrive at the fence about the same time. Fielder gets twisted around, hits the fence and there is an explosion of fielder, ball and fence all in one spot.

From my vantage point, it appears that the ball hit the ground just inside the fence, then bounced over the (now partially collapsed) fence. I yell, "Dead ball!", and signal "two bases".

Okay so far....except...as I'm getting set to make the call, the base umpire (who had already pivoted in) turned his back to the infield, slid out toward the baseline (ignoring the runner) and simultaneously with me announcing "two bases" began signaling "home run"!

I reiterated "two bases", got the runner's attention and sent her back to second. Now we have a problem. Offensive team's coach is livid (maybe rightfully so). He starts laying into me and I tell him to hold off, we're going to straighten this out. I confer with partner- what do you have? He says, apologetically, that he had the ball clearing the fence. I tell him I think it bounced inside the fence first and I have a ground rule double. Partner then says, "It's your call" (ya think?). I step away and again signal "two bases".

Coach is really hot now! I tell him it's my call, we're sticking with it and let's play ball. Next batter doubled and that runner on second scored anyway.

Just to make things a little more interesting, our associations new UIC was watching this game.

After the game, before I get a few feet from the field one of the coaches from the defensive team intercepts me to ask about that play. Coach tells me that it honestly looked like the right call to him and he would have been just as mad if it had been ruled a home run. I tell him, "Well, at least two of us saw it that way!".

I get a few more feet and a parent from the offensive team intercepts me to let me know that he was sitting near the fence and that the ball clearly went over on the fly. I tell him, "Unfortunately, that's not how it looked to me- and I don't get the luxury of sitting right by the fence".

The next person to get to me is our new UIC. He wants to talk about "that play". I explain to him what I had and why I had it. He answer was, "At anytime during the play, did you see the base umpire's back?". I said that I did, but that was only after he had already pivoted into the infield. He seemed satisfied with that answer.

Not really a question involved here, as under the circumstances I'm certain that this was my call and the base umpire should have been watching the runner, not the ball. Just wondering if anyone has any comments or has dealt with a similar situation.

[NCASAUmp]

I think this is a perfect case of having clearly understood mechanics and clear delegations of responsibilities when multiple umpires are on the field. Some associations don't do a good enough job of making sure that everyone knows what part they have on the field and when that part gets handed off to someone else.

I agree that it would have been best if he had decided to go out (I'm thinking staying in foul territory to keep out of the way, but also to get a good angle on the play), as there were no other runners on base. One umpire can handle one runner.

But the bottom line is that you had it right: the BU had button hooked into the field, which means it's now 100% yours. You also did the right thing by conferring with your partner.

It annoys me to no end when partners make signals for calls that aren't theirs to make. Even if the call's the same as mine, it's a bad practice to engage in on the field.

[CecilOne]

Two things absolutely right
- your call
- slow weekend here

If a blown call (if O parent correct), still no choice but "From my vantage point, it appears that the ball hit the ground just inside the fence, then bounced over "; unfortunate but no possible change unless partner has definite (not apologetically) better view. Possible if BU hooked in and you were straight down the line.

Did whichever mechanics in use say the BU should go out on a fly like that?

[BretMan]

Forgot to mention that this was an ASA tourney.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Forgot to mention that this was an ASA tourney.

Well, if it was ASA, then BU going out is optional. Advisable, especially on a temporary fence that can collapse in a heartbeat, but still optional.

If you were using 3-umpire mechanics, then BU has no friggin' excuse!

[DeputyUICHousto]

Championship Game...Top of 7 visitors down one run. One out. Runners on 1st and 3rd. Short pop up behind second baseman. Right fielder comes in to attempt a catch. My "partner" take a couple of steps towards the middle of the diamond then turns around. Ball comes down and I rule "No Catch!" and my "partner" signals "out". Runner at 1st sees my partner an out so he retreats to 1st base. The runner from 3rd tags and heads for the plate. Right fielder throws ball in to double off the runner at 1st before runner scores. I immediately call "Time!". Players are yelling and running around and I call my "partner" over. The first words out of his mouth are "It is your call"...no sh*t! So I put the batter/runner at 1st and move up the runner from 1st to 2nd...can't get him out because of my "partner". They go on to score several more runs and end up winning. The home team was pisssed. Oh well.

[RKBUmp]

I have had partners that have given me subtle signals on hard to read plays, such has a closed fist at thier stomach or a finger point to ground. But have never had one button hook in and then make a call on a fly ball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Coach is really hot now! I tell him it's my call, we're sticking with it and let's play ball. Next batter doubled and that runner on second scored anyway.

Really? In fall ball? You should have given this coach a head start on spring.

I get a few more feet and a parent from the offensive team intercepts me to let me know that he was sitting near the fence and that the ball clearly went over on the fly. I tell him, "Unfortunately, that's not how it looked to me- and I don't get the luxury of sitting right by the fence".

If your UIC was there in an official capacity, he never should have let the parent get near you. I probably would have avoided the parent as nothing good can possibly come from such a confrontation. But in fall ball, it is usually a bit more relaxed, just that the coach didn't get that part.

[Andy]

I had a similar situation last spring.....only it was me that screwed up!

ASA 18u National Qualifier. 4th or 5th inning...close ball game...R1 on third, R2 on second, two outs. I am BU.

Long fly ball to center, I buttonhook in and take a look out to center to be available for help if my partner needs it. I see the ball go into F8s glove as she falls into the temporary fence. I stay with it for a bit to make sure that she keeps control of the ball and it doesn't come out when she lands. She lands, I do not see the ball, (here comes the screwup) and signal an out.

Inning over, I turn to go to my between innings position...Now the fun starts.
everybody is screaming and yelling about the ball being on the ground and how F8 had to walk over and pick it up. My PU partner comes out to talk and I ask him what he has. He says he saw the ball on the ground, but did not know how it got there, ie., did F8 release it voluntarily? I tell him I never saw the ball on the ground and had a catch. He says that since I signaled the out and that is what everybody saw, that's what we are going with.

I know, it is the PU's call because I didn't go out (I probably should have, even with runners on base) and I had no business signaling anything, but sh*t happens and we deal with it....By the way, the team at bat at the time ended up losing by three runs...the three runs they would have scored if I had made the "right" call according to moms that yelled at me as I was leaving the field.......

[vcblue]

18A National Qualifier. Winning team moves on to National, Losing continues on to battle for last 2 spots. Bottom of 7th, Home (offense) down by 1. Runners on 1st and 2nd, no outs.

High fly ball about 15 feet past 2nd. F8 had to move fast to make the catch. I am BU I button hooking in, both runners are holding half way. F8 has to dive, but I see a catch, but I don't hear my partner say out. Runners take off to the next base. Ball back to pitcher play over and I turn to look at my partner. He has his arm up signaling out. D coach yells to throw the ball to second, tag the runner and step on the base. 3 outs. We get together both have a the ball caught (wish he would have yelled out).

Walking off the field I hear, "you sucked when she was 10, and you are worst now that she is 18". Pretty sure it was directed at my partner because the loosing team was from his area.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by vcblue

18A National Qualifier. Winning team moves on to National, Losing continues on to battle for last 2 spots. Bottom of 7th, Home (offense) down by 1. Runners on 1st and 2nd, no outs.

High fly ball about 15 feet past 2nd. F8 had to move fast to make the catch. I am BU I button hooking in, both runners are holding half way. F8 has to dive, but I see a catch, but I don't hear my partner say out. Runners take off to the next base. Ball back to pitcher play over and I turn to look at my partner. He has his arm up signaling out. D coach yells to throw the ball to second, tag the runner and step on the base. 3 outs. We get together both have a the ball caught (wish he would have yelled out).

Walking off the field I hear, "you sucked when she was 10, and you are worst now that she is 18". Pretty sure it was directed at my partner because the loosing team was from his area.

Sucks that his/her base coaches didn't hold the runners to tag up.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Extremely lucky that I have only had a few fields using the temporary fence. And these were only in tournaments that had 80+ teams. Maybe 2 - 3 games tops.

Will keep this in mind for the future.......

Joel

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

Extremely lucky that I have only had a few fields using the temporary fence. And these were only in tournaments that had 80+ teams. Maybe 2 - 3 games tops.

Will keep this in mind for the future.......

Joel

The temporary fences can lead to all sorts of issues. If you are in a 3 umpire game, you should have an umpire out there on fly balls near the fence, so it's not so bad. In a 2 umpire game, it becomes more of a challenge, especially for the BU to judge whether they should chase a long fly ball or not.

I had a game a few weeks ago, ASA rules, 3 umpire, I am 1U, runners on second and third, no outs. Long fly to center, I chase. F8 catches the ball as she is running into the fence. She falls to ground collapsing the temporary fence, I am making sure that she maintains control of the ball. She starts to get up by placing her throwing hand on the ground past the fence! I kill the play, rule a catch and carry and award each runner one base. I seriously doubt that it (catch and carry) would have been seen by a PU in a 2 umpire game.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Just thinking, you may have done the DEFENSE the favor in this case. Rare in fastpitch (more common in slowpitch), but there may have been two runs if the ball stayed live with the F8 on the ground after the catch.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Sucks that his/her base coaches didn't hold the runners to tag up.

Runners took off? Defense didn't start a play until after the ball went to the pitcher and then they noticed the out call? Fans were livid?

Sounds to me like the only person that thought it was a catch was the PU.