2011 ASA Rule Changes with Comments

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

As it was explained to me, the very reason why SP umpires always start in B is because umpires were having troubles moving around the field. The average age of umpires is getting higher, younger guys don't want the job (darn sissies), and accommodations were made to the mechanics to allow for an aging crew.

Again, that's how it was explained to me. Don't shoot the messenger.

Phil may have presented it that way; as may have others.

But that is merely a perspective. The simple fact is that NO ONE, regardless the age, needs to do extra work solely to do extra work, if there is no advantage. There is no necessity for a slow pitch umpire to start in "A" (like fastpitch looking for the illegal pitch) with no runners, since the only next play is a call at first on an infield grounder (you step up and are already in perfect position), a buttonhook on the ball hit to the outfield (and you are already closer to your next position than starting in "A", or going out on a fly ball (and you now can help on more of the field than you could from "A").

To my knowledge, no one has ever presented a substantial advantage or need in start in "A" versus "B" in slowpitch. Even the holdouts on the NUS admitted they only wanted to maintain a consistency between slowpitch and fastpitch, not that there was any other reason. So, why not adapt to the best possible position??

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Phil may have presented it that way; as may have others.

But that is merely a perspective. The simple fact is that NO ONE, regardless the age, needs to do extra work solely to do extra work, if there is no advantage. There is no necessity for a slow pitch umpire to start in "A" (like fastpitch looking for the illegal pitch) with no runners, since the only next play is a call at first on an infield grounder (you step up and are already in perfect position), a buttonhook on the ball hit to the outfield (and you are already closer to your next position than starting in "A", or going out on a fly ball (and you now can help on more of the field than you could from "A").

To my knowledge, no one has ever presented a substantial advantage or need in start in "A" versus "B" in slowpitch. Even the holdouts on the NUS admitted they only wanted to maintain a consistency between slowpitch and fastpitch, not that there was any other reason. So, why not adapt to the best possible position??

Well, starting in A versus B is 6 of one, half dozen the other. A gets you in motion towards 2B, B makes it easier to buttonhook.

Though if consistency between FP, MP and SP is an eventual goal, then it would be nice to have either everyone switch to B, or have SP switch back to A.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Well, starting in A versus B is 6 of one, half dozen the other. A gets you in motion towards 2B, B makes it easier to buttonhook.

Though if consistency between FP, MP and SP is an eventual goal, then it would be nice to have either everyone switch to B, or have SP switch back to A.

Consistency with FP was the "excuse" for the SP PU to drop to the set position at the pitch's release instead of first determining legal/illegal.

Consistency is something that belongs within the game, not necessarily among the games. While I don't have a problem with maintaining standard mechanics for softball in general, each game has different demands and should be officiated accordingly.

[Bill S]

I think maybe you fellas are getting off the track with my original thoughts.

Consistency between the two games or even the three is what has gotten us in trouble. You can not try to umpire them with the same mechanics.
They are not the same and have definite different styles and demands.

As far as starting in the A or B position does not matter so much either. At a long tournament day and the guys want to start in the B, I do not care.

I am not rying to accommodate or change mechanics to cover or take care of my limitations or more recent shortcomings. I have retired from World Class ball for some time now since some other people need a chance and I could no longer give the type of game it deserves.
I am still active in many levels of Slow, Fast and Baseball.

I am very heavily involved and have an opportunity to shape or adjust some National mindsets. As a student of the fine art of umping; I truly believe we have let the slow-pitch game pass us by. Not me, myself, my fat old body with the replaced knee. I am trying to help a craft I love.
I am talking about me in my prime or another 30 something umpires I evaluate that either get in the way or cannot get to a proper angle or help his partner or do justice to the game as he is forced to start in an antiquated position and not physically able to get to where they are supposed to be. (Unless they posses super powers). This game has changed.

Now fellas, this is only with runners on base is slow-pitch softball.
Do you understand if you are "macho" and start somewhere in front of the fielders because you are not going to change your game for the players, "God forbid", you have no insurance coverage because you are not where you are supposed to be by national mechanics?

Yeah I knew Merle, have met Bernie, taught with Brinkman, met Emile and considered John Mc Sherry a friend. I am not impressed with myself or blowing smoke.

I put this on this board because I have lurked for years and noticed some very level headed thoughtfull, veteran individuals and wanted to pick your brains.

I am of the mindset that slow-pitch mechanics with base runners on base is in need of an adjustment.

Your inputs would be respected and appreciated.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Bill S

I think maybe you fellas are getting off the track with my original thoughts.

Consistency between the two games or even the three is what has gotten us in trouble. You can not try to umpire them with the same mechanics.
They are not the same and have definite different styles and demands.

I think we all agree with this.

As far as starting in the A or B position does not matter so much either. At a long tournament day and the guys want to start in the B, I do not care.

That's rubbish. The length of the day should be irrelevant to the point. If you need to adjust your mechanics to accommodate how many games you get, either you accepted too many games or you shouldn't be on the field.

Do not confuse that with special situations where additional games are necessitated by other issues like weather or injury.

I am not rying to accommodate or change mechanics to cover or take care of my limitations or more recent shortcomings. I have retired from World Class ball for some time now since some other people need a chance and I could no longer give the type of game it deserves.
I am still active in many levels of Slow, Fast and Baseball.

I am very heavily involved and have an opportunity to shape or adjust some National mindsets. As a student of the fine art of umping; I truly believe we have let the slow-pitch game pass us by. Not me, myself, my fat old body with the replaced knee. I am trying to help a craft I love.
I am talking about me in my prime or another 30 something umpires I evaluate that either get in the way or cannot get to a proper angle or help his partner or do justice to the game as he is forced to start in an antiquated position and not physically able to get to where they are supposed to be. (Unless they posses super powers). This game has changed.

Now fellas, this is only with runners on base is slow-pitch softball.

"Fellas"?

Do you understand if you are "macho" and start somewhere in front of the fielders because you are not going to change your game for the players, "God forbid", you have no insurance coverage because you are not where you are supposed to be by national mechanics?

Where are you getting this crap? That final statement is completely false.

Yeah I knew Merle, have met Bernie, taught with Brinkman, met Emile and considered John Mc Sherry a friend. I am not impressed with myself or blowing smoke.

Then why mention it?

I put this on this board because I have lurked for years and noticed some very level headed thoughtfull, veteran individuals and wanted to pick your brains.

I am of the mindset that slow-pitch mechanics with base runners on base is in need of an adjustment.

And I think the FP mechanics need changing, go figure.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Consistency with FP was the "excuse" for the SP PU to drop to the set position at the pitch's release instead of first determining legal/illegal.

Consistency is something that belongs within the game, not necessarily among the games. While I don't have a problem with maintaining standard mechanics for softball in general, each game has different demands and should be officiated accordingly.

And that's precisely why I said "if." If that's how they want me to do it, then by golly, that's how I'm gonna do it. If ASA (or any association, for that matter) wants consistency among their umpires across varying levels of their programs, then so be it.

But SP is a completely different animal and has a strike zone that MUST be called differently from FP. FP and MP PUs track the pitch through the zone in a relatively straight line, whereas SP umpires track the pitch at an odd angle. Couple that with the fact that we're also governing such things as minimum and maximum height.

But that's going off into a completely different tangent for another thread.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

But that's going off into a completely different tangent for another thread.

Which is why I just started another one, called Mechanics discussion.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Which is why I just started another one, called Mechanics discussion.

Always knew you were a smart man.

[Bill S]

OK Mr. Irish.
I am out of your sanbox.
I am not worthy to discuss anything with the all knowing.
Wiil not let the door hit me.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Bill S

OK Mr. Irish.
I am out of your sanbox.
I am not worthy to discuss anything with the all knowing.
Wiil not let the door hit me.

So you are one and done? You said you had some ideas, but never presented anything in particular.

That's the best you can do?

Your response leads me to believe you haven't been around as long as you noted. Let me make this easy. What have I stated isn't true? I have no problem with contrary views, but I'm not going to sit down and say it is fact because someone says so. I'm going to voice my opinion just as you expect to voice yours.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

That's the best you can do?

I surmise he wasn't expecting to have to play defense so quickly against his own teammate.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I surmise he wasn't expecting to have to play defense so quickly against his own teammate.

You want to make a point, you have to make a point. Not talk in circles and expect others to carry the conversation.

If I wanted that, I would talk to my wife.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You want to make a point, you have to make a point. Not talk in circles and expect others to carry the conversation.

If I wanted that, I would talk to my wife.

He has 12 posts. Let's give the guy a chance.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

He has 12 posts. Let's give the guy a chance.

Not a problem. What is the discussion?

He wants or thinks changes should be made. Okay, let's hear some ideas. Haven't seen one offered for discussion, yet.

[CecilOne]

Does Effect #2 below, if read literally, mean that the manager has the option without a batted ball or even a pitch?

"Rule 4 Section 1C [3]: If discovered using the wrong number of females or males in the outfield or infield and brought to the umpire’s attention by the offended team:

a) After a pitch legal or illegal or play made,
EFFECT: All action stands.
b) Before the next pitch legal or illegal or play made,
c) Before the defense has left the field,
d) Before the umpires have left the field of play,
EFFECT: b, c and d

1) If the batter hits the ball and reaches first base safely, and all other
runners have advanced at least one base. All action of the batted ball
stands.
2) If all runners, including the batter runner, do not advance at least one base.
The manager has the option of taking the result of the play, or awards the batter first base and advances all runners, if forced.

Comment: This adds a penalty for the defensive team not playing the right number of males and or females in the outfield and infield."

Also, in #2, should it read "an award of first base to the batter and all runners advancing if forced"; as a manger can't actually "award".