Need a little help on a mechanic - please

[MGKBLUE]

The NCAA mechanic is to go for help prior to making the call in the situation described above.

NCAA Manual page 109: "If you are missing a piece of information necessary to making a call, go to your partner, unsolicited, prior to rendering any decision. Ask your partner what you need to know: "Did she have the bag?" "Was the ball dropped/bobbled?" Your partner will respond with a verbal answer to your question. You than follow with the final call and signal for the play. If doubt is created immediately after making your call, then, again unsolicited, go to your partner for the information you need."

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by MGKBLUE

The NCAA mechanic is to go for help prior to making the call in the situation described above.

NCAA Manual page 109: "If you are missing a piece of information necessary to making a call, go to your partner, unsolicited, prior to rendering any decision. Ask your partner what you need to know: "Did she have the bag?" "Was the ball dropped/bobbled?" Your partner will respond with a verbal answer to your question. You than follow with the final call and signal for the play. If doubt is created immediately after making your call, then, again unsolicited, go to your partner for the information you need."

NCAA v ASA. Two different beasts and two different desires on mechanics. When in Rome...................

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

NCAA v ASA. Two different beasts and two different desires on mechanics. When in Rome...................

3 umpires vs. 2 umpires and an alleged higher level of game.

Each can do what they want, but NCAA has a limited number to deal with in a closed shop.

ASA has to address umpires from all games and all levels. ASA does have a mechanic which gives up the play and the partner is responsible for it. Problem is, if the partner did not see it, the runner must be safe.

NCAA notes that if you believe you are missing information, you go look for it. Well, from the C (which isn't supposed to happen in NCAA) the umpire is more often than not going to have a poor angle on whether the defender still had contact with 1B when receiving AND possessing the ball. IOW, it is not unusual to have a play where the umpire doesn't have 100% of every absolute piece of information, yet thousands of calls a day are made within those standards without issue.

I don't think you can always equally compare mechanics from different games since the set-up and demands are different. However, I will always stay with make the call that you saw. Has worked for me over 45 years, so I'm confident with it.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Has worked for me over 45 years, so I'm confident with it.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

3 umpires vs. 2 umpires and an alleged higher level of game.

Each can do what they want, but NCAA has a limited number to deal with in a closed shop.

ASA has to address umpires from all games and all levels. ASA does have a mechanic which gives up the play and the partner is responsible for it. Problem is, if the partner did not see it, the runner must be safe.

NCAA notes that if you believe you are missing information, you go look for it. Well, from the C (which isn't supposed to happen in NCAA) the umpire is more often than not going to have a poor angle on whether the defender still had contact with 1B when receiving AND possessing the ball. IOW, it is not unusual to have a play where the umpire doesn't have 100% of every absolute piece of information, yet thousands of calls a day are made within those standards without issue.

I don't think you can always equally compare mechanics from different games since the set-up and demands are different. However, I will always stay with make the call that you saw. Has worked for me over 45 years, so I'm confident with it.

For the record, not all NCAA games are three man mechanics. There are several D3's that are still using two man, though I would like to see that change as well.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

For the record, not all NCAA games are three man mechanics. There are several D3's that are still using two man, though I would like to see that change as well.

No argument and I should have noted that.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

For the record, not all NCAA games are three man mechanics. There are several D3's that are still using two man, though I would like to see that change as well.

In my neck of the woods, regular season conference and non-conference DII & DII games are pretty much all two man. There were some conferences that used three man, but cut back to two when the economy got tight and programs were forced to cut costs. Many of the area DI's use two man for non-conference games.

[KJUmp]

Inthegame....

Three questions, (1) On both plays, what (if any) kind of angle was the BU working to get from C to make the call at 1B as the plays were developing?
(2) Was the PU trailing up the first base line? (3) Same umpiring crew both days?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Inthegame....

Three questions, (1) On both plays, what (if any) kind of angle was the BU working to get from C to make the call at 1B as the plays were developing?
(2) Was the PU trailing up the first base line? (3) Same umpiring crew both days?

Hopefully "no" to #2 with runners in scoring position.

[Inthegame]

1. BU was off the left shoulder or so of the SS. He & she may have stepped in a couple of paces towards first.
2. I don't recall PU trailing BR
3. One crew was both male the other crew was female

I agree with "Irish" make the call and make possible correction later. With no call I see it could create alot of confusion if the BR just continues to 2nd and defense attempts 2nd play on BR while oringinal baserunner scores.

In any event - thanks for your input and I hope to call NCAA games someday.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Inthegame....

Three questions, (1) On both plays, what (if any) kind of angle was the BU working to get from C to make the call at 1B as the plays were developing?
(2) Was the PU trailing up the first base line? (3) Same umpiring crew both days?

1) BU already has a very good angle on this play at C, and likely is moving only to gain distance, and even then, only if he can stay out of the play (grounder to the left side could be F6). 2) Only if it was his last game ever or he wanted it to be. HUGE no-no. 3) ??

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

NCAA v ASA. Two different beasts and two different desires on mechanics. When in Rome...................

Since the OP observed this in a "Div. I college fall game"...I guess he was in Rome!

[Andy]

Originally Posted by MGKBLUE

The NCAA mechanic is to go for help prior to making the call in the situation described above.

NCAA Manual page 109: "If you are missing a piece of information necessary to making a call, go to your partner, unsolicited, prior to rendering any decision. Ask your partner what you need to know: "Did she have the bag?" "Was the ball dropped/bobbled?" Your partner will respond with a verbal answer to your question. You than follow with the final call and signal for the play. If doubt is created immediately after making your call, then, again unsolicited, go to your partner for the information you need."

Since Emily is the primary contributor to the CCA manual and she is also one of the people most responsible for my learning as an umpire, this is the mechanic I have been taught.

I know that Mike disagrees with me, but I like this. Most of the partners that I work with expect this and do not release to the play at third until they have observed the "action" at first base.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

Since Emily is the primary contributor to the CCA manual and she is also one of the people most responsible for my learning as an umpire, this is the mechanic I have been taught.

I know that Mike disagrees with me, but I like this. Most of the partners that I work with expect this and do not release to the play at third until they have observed the "action" at first base.

Well, Andy, it isn't just me, but ASA disagrees with you, too.

And what happens if the PU doesn't see it? Maybe he takes a shot with a bat or a catcher steps and blocks him out of the play? And giving priority to a play at 1B over being in position for a play at 3B? I don't think so.

It is presumptive and IMO gives an umpire an out for developing a bad habit. I believe this mechanic reverses the priority an umpire should employ. Instead of looking for possibly unseen negatives on a play, the umpire should worry about the s/he DOES see/hear and make the call based on the information available.

[CecilOne]

So, regardless of which we believe is better, in NCAA ask first, elsewhere call first.