Need a little help on a mechanic - please

[Inthegame]

I was watching some fall college ball (Div. I) and I obseved this twice. Not sure if this is a new mechanic or what. One time I was in the stands on the first base side (game 1) and the other I was in right field well beyond the fence.

2 man mechanics - both times BU in "c" position - less than 2 outs.

Game 1 Sit. #1 close play at first base base - poor throw from left side of infield, low and wide towards right field - 1st baseman had to stretch for the ball. BU made no call and immediately went to PU for call for a pulled foot or not.

Game 2 (another day) Sit. #2 Again a poor throw from leftside of infield - this time chest high but towards homeplate. 1st baseman (person) swipes at runner (approx. 5' feet or closer to first base) as runner is heading towards first. Again no call from from BU but goes to PU to ask if a swipe tag was made.

I could be wrong or have "CRS" but I seemed to remember to be taught to make the call as you see it and then a) if a coach approaches go to partner for help or B) call time once play is dead and go to partner for help.

Please advise.

Thanks.

[3afan]

i've been taught that both ways is acceptable, but its important to pre-game it with your partner so you're on the same page

[Tex]

BU is to make the call. Go for help with the PU if requested. The PU may have been moving toward 3rd base for the next call and not see the play at 1st.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Tex

BU is to make the call. Go for help with the PU if requested.

Really? All it takes is a request to ask your partner? What if you are 100% sure you got the best look at it and know you got it right?

[IRISHMAFIA]

And if your partner did not see it? Its not your partner's job and on many occasions has other duties to attend.

Speaking ASA, the BU should make the call they see using all the information available from visual to audible to reactionary.

If blocked or somehow completely taken out of the play, then go to your partner.

And the next argument is going to be, why not use your partner if possible? Are you going to watch the play, check to see if your partner may have had a better view and then point? Or if s/he isn't watching, turn back and then make a call after the runner is back on the base or halfway to the dugout?

BTW, who is covering the runner going to third while the two umpires are making a decision on the play at 1B?

[MGKBLUE]

The NCAA mechanic is to go for help prior to making the call in the situation described above.

NCAA Manual page 109: "If you are missing a piece of information necessary to making a call, go to your partner, unsolicited, prior to rendering any decision. Ask your partner what you need to know: "Did she have the bag?" "Was the ball dropped/bobbled?" Your partner will respond with a verbal answer to your question. You than follow with the final call and signal for the play. If doubt is created immediately after making your call, then, again unsolicited, go to your partner for the information you need."

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by MGKBLUE

The NCAA mechanic is to go for help prior to making the call in the situation described above.

NCAA Manual page 109: "If you are missing a piece of information necessary to making a call, go to your partner, unsolicited, prior to rendering any decision. Ask your partner what you need to know: "Did she have the bag?" "Was the ball dropped/bobbled?" Your partner will respond with a verbal answer to your question. You than follow with the final call and signal for the play. If doubt is created immediately after making your call, then, again unsolicited, go to your partner for the information you need."

NCAA v ASA. Two different beasts and two different desires on mechanics. When in Rome...................

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

NCAA v ASA. Two different beasts and two different desires on mechanics. When in Rome...................

3 umpires vs. 2 umpires and an alleged higher level of game.

Each can do what they want, but NCAA has a limited number to deal with in a closed shop.

ASA has to address umpires from all games and all levels. ASA does have a mechanic which gives up the play and the partner is responsible for it. Problem is, if the partner did not see it, the runner must be safe.

NCAA notes that if you believe you are missing information, you go look for it. Well, from the C (which isn't supposed to happen in NCAA) the umpire is more often than not going to have a poor angle on whether the defender still had contact with 1B when receiving AND possessing the ball. IOW, it is not unusual to have a play where the umpire doesn't have 100% of every absolute piece of information, yet thousands of calls a day are made within those standards without issue.

I don't think you can always equally compare mechanics from different games since the set-up and demands are different. However, I will always stay with make the call that you saw. Has worked for me over 45 years, so I'm confident with it.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Has worked for me over 45 years, so I'm confident with it.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

3 umpires vs. 2 umpires and an alleged higher level of game.

Each can do what they want, but NCAA has a limited number to deal with in a closed shop.

ASA has to address umpires from all games and all levels. ASA does have a mechanic which gives up the play and the partner is responsible for it. Problem is, if the partner did not see it, the runner must be safe.

NCAA notes that if you believe you are missing information, you go look for it. Well, from the C (which isn't supposed to happen in NCAA) the umpire is more often than not going to have a poor angle on whether the defender still had contact with 1B when receiving AND possessing the ball. IOW, it is not unusual to have a play where the umpire doesn't have 100% of every absolute piece of information, yet thousands of calls a day are made within those standards without issue.

I don't think you can always equally compare mechanics from different games since the set-up and demands are different. However, I will always stay with make the call that you saw. Has worked for me over 45 years, so I'm confident with it.

For the record, not all NCAA games are three man mechanics. There are several D3's that are still using two man, though I would like to see that change as well.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

For the record, not all NCAA games are three man mechanics. There are several D3's that are still using two man, though I would like to see that change as well.

No argument and I should have noted that.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

NCAA v ASA. Two different beasts and two different desires on mechanics. When in Rome...................

Since the OP observed this in a "Div. I college fall game"...I guess he was in Rome!

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

For the record, not all NCAA games are three man mechanics. There are several D3's that are still using two man, though I would like to see that change as well.

In my neck of the woods, regular season conference and non-conference DII & DII games are pretty much all two man. There were some conferences that used three man, but cut back to two when the economy got tight and programs were forced to cut costs. Many of the area DI's use two man for non-conference games.

[KJUmp]

Inthegame....

Three questions, (1) On both plays, what (if any) kind of angle was the BU working to get from C to make the call at 1B as the plays were developing?
(2) Was the PU trailing up the first base line? (3) Same umpiring crew both days?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Inthegame....

Three questions, (1) On both plays, what (if any) kind of angle was the BU working to get from C to make the call at 1B as the plays were developing?
(2) Was the PU trailing up the first base line? (3) Same umpiring crew both days?

Hopefully "no" to #2 with runners in scoring position.