Need a little help on a mechanic - please

[3afan]

i've been taught that both ways is acceptable, but its important to pre-game it with your partner so you're on the same page

[Tex]

BU is to make the call. Go for help with the PU if requested. The PU may have been moving toward 3rd base for the next call and not see the play at 1st.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Tex

BU is to make the call. Go for help with the PU if requested.

Really? All it takes is a request to ask your partner? What if you are 100% sure you got the best look at it and know you got it right?

[IRISHMAFIA]

And if your partner did not see it? Its not your partner's job and on many occasions has other duties to attend.

Speaking ASA, the BU should make the call they see using all the information available from visual to audible to reactionary.

If blocked or somehow completely taken out of the play, then go to your partner.

And the next argument is going to be, why not use your partner if possible? Are you going to watch the play, check to see if your partner may have had a better view and then point? Or if s/he isn't watching, turn back and then make a call after the runner is back on the base or halfway to the dugout?

BTW, who is covering the runner going to third while the two umpires are making a decision on the play at 1B?

[MGKBLUE]

The NCAA mechanic is to go for help prior to making the call in the situation described above.

NCAA Manual page 109: "If you are missing a piece of information necessary to making a call, go to your partner, unsolicited, prior to rendering any decision. Ask your partner what you need to know: "Did she have the bag?" "Was the ball dropped/bobbled?" Your partner will respond with a verbal answer to your question. You than follow with the final call and signal for the play. If doubt is created immediately after making your call, then, again unsolicited, go to your partner for the information you need."

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by MGKBLUE

The NCAA mechanic is to go for help prior to making the call in the situation described above.

NCAA Manual page 109: "If you are missing a piece of information necessary to making a call, go to your partner, unsolicited, prior to rendering any decision. Ask your partner what you need to know: "Did she have the bag?" "Was the ball dropped/bobbled?" Your partner will respond with a verbal answer to your question. You than follow with the final call and signal for the play. If doubt is created immediately after making your call, then, again unsolicited, go to your partner for the information you need."

NCAA v ASA. Two different beasts and two different desires on mechanics. When in Rome...................

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

NCAA v ASA. Two different beasts and two different desires on mechanics. When in Rome...................

3 umpires vs. 2 umpires and an alleged higher level of game.

Each can do what they want, but NCAA has a limited number to deal with in a closed shop.

ASA has to address umpires from all games and all levels. ASA does have a mechanic which gives up the play and the partner is responsible for it. Problem is, if the partner did not see it, the runner must be safe.

NCAA notes that if you believe you are missing information, you go look for it. Well, from the C (which isn't supposed to happen in NCAA) the umpire is more often than not going to have a poor angle on whether the defender still had contact with 1B when receiving AND possessing the ball. IOW, it is not unusual to have a play where the umpire doesn't have 100% of every absolute piece of information, yet thousands of calls a day are made within those standards without issue.

I don't think you can always equally compare mechanics from different games since the set-up and demands are different. However, I will always stay with make the call that you saw. Has worked for me over 45 years, so I'm confident with it.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

NCAA v ASA. Two different beasts and two different desires on mechanics. When in Rome...................

Since the OP observed this in a "Div. I college fall game"...I guess he was in Rome!

[Andy]

Originally Posted by MGKBLUE

The NCAA mechanic is to go for help prior to making the call in the situation described above.

NCAA Manual page 109: "If you are missing a piece of information necessary to making a call, go to your partner, unsolicited, prior to rendering any decision. Ask your partner what you need to know: "Did she have the bag?" "Was the ball dropped/bobbled?" Your partner will respond with a verbal answer to your question. You than follow with the final call and signal for the play. If doubt is created immediately after making your call, then, again unsolicited, go to your partner for the information you need."

Since Emily is the primary contributor to the CCA manual and she is also one of the people most responsible for my learning as an umpire, this is the mechanic I have been taught.

I know that Mike disagrees with me, but I like this. Most of the partners that I work with expect this and do not release to the play at third until they have observed the "action" at first base.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

Since Emily is the primary contributor to the CCA manual and she is also one of the people most responsible for my learning as an umpire, this is the mechanic I have been taught.

I know that Mike disagrees with me, but I like this. Most of the partners that I work with expect this and do not release to the play at third until they have observed the "action" at first base.

Well, Andy, it isn't just me, but ASA disagrees with you, too.

And what happens if the PU doesn't see it? Maybe he takes a shot with a bat or a catcher steps and blocks him out of the play? And giving priority to a play at 1B over being in position for a play at 3B? I don't think so.

It is presumptive and IMO gives an umpire an out for developing a bad habit. I believe this mechanic reverses the priority an umpire should employ. Instead of looking for possibly unseen negatives on a play, the umpire should worry about the s/he DOES see/hear and make the call based on the information available.