Rules question

[blue]

I had a situation come up yesterday that I could use some clarification on. Rec leagues using ASA rules. Maximum of 6 runs per inning allowed with the league rules. Situation: 5 runs already scored, 2 outs, bases loaded, full count on batter. Nest pitch is ball 4, also a pass ball to the backstop. Both teams treat it as a pass ball with runner on 3rd racing home. I announce "ball four'. Runner scores 6th run with the catcher just retieving the ball. The batter has backed up to clear the plate area. Coaches' from both teams announce "6 runs". I look at batter and again state "ball four". She looks at me, then to her coach who calls her to the dugout. She enters dugout as the defense is clearing the field, so she never did touch first base. My question: Is the batter out as soon as she enters the dugout, nullifyng the 6th run? Or do i wait for the defense to appeal her not touching the base?

I waited for the defense to appeal, which they never did.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by blue

I had a situation come up yesterday that I could use some clarification on. Rec leagues using ASA rules. Maximum of 6 runs per inning allowed with the league rules. Situation: 5 runs already scored, 2 outs, bases loaded, full count on batter. Nest pitch is ball 4, also a pass ball to the backstop. Both teams treat it as a pass ball with runner on 3rd racing home. I announce "ball four'. Runner scores 6th run with the catcher just retieving the ball. The batter has backed up to clear the plate area. Coaches' from both teams announce "6 runs". I look at batter and again state "ball four". She looks at me, then to her coach who calls her to the dugout. She enters dugout as the defense is clearing the field, so she never did touch first base. My question: Is the batter out as soon as she enters the dugout, nullifyng the 6th run? Or do i wait for the defense to appeal her not touching the base?

I waited for the defense to appeal, which they never did.

Looks like an out, not an appeal.
Unless of course, there is also a league rule (anathema) which negates it.

[Skahtboi]

Yep.

[MD Longhorn]

By rule, an out.

By practice, calling this out is only going to get you the OOO reputation. If this is tourney - call the out. However, often fall ball is educational ball, for players and coaches alike. Depending on the tenor of this league, you might, instead, tell the coach between innings that she has to go to first on a walk, or she's out.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

By rule, an out.

By practice, calling this out is only going to get you the OOO reputation. If this is tourney - call the out. However, often fall ball is educational ball, for players and coaches alike. Depending on the tenor of this league, you might, instead, tell the coach between innings that she has to go to first on a walk, or she's out.

If you wait to tell the coach between innings, then you already have the out and it is too late for her action to change that.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

If you wait to tell the coach between innings, then you already have the out and it is too late for her action to change that.

Scott - what I meant was that if this was low-level or a learning league (as a lot of fall ball leagues are), INSTEAD of calling the out, you might be better off just telling the coach that she'd messed up. I'm not saying this applies all the time, or at all ages.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

By rule, an out.

By practice, calling this out is only going to get you the OOO reputation. If this is tourney - call the out. However, often fall ball is educational ball, for players and coaches alike. Depending on the tenor of this league, you might, instead, tell the coach between innings that she has to go to first on a walk, or she's out.

By what rule? The league rule for ending an inning with six runs is almost certainly underspecified (is there a league rule that isn't?). So, I think by rule we have an inning that ends when the 6th run scores with no apparent nullifying play available meaning the only appeals I will accept are for a runner that has scored. And I'll defy you to show me in the rule book where it says that's not how you're supposed to handle it. (I realize you can make up your own rule where it wouldn't count, but you don't want to call it that way so why not make up my rule as long as we're making up rules either way.)
________
FetishStormX

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

By what rule? The league rule for ending an inning with six runs is almost certainly underspecified (is there a league rule that isn't?). So, I think by rule we have an inning that ends when the 6th run scores with no apparent nullifying play available meaning the only appeals I will accept are for a runner that has scored. And I'll defy you to show me in the rule book where it says that's not how you're supposed to handle it. (I realize you can make up your own rule where it wouldn't count, but you don't want to call it that way so why not make up my rule as long as we're making up rules either way.)

You're kidding, right? The run does not score if the batter-runner is out before reaching first base. The BR was out the moment she entered the dugout, therefore the run doesn't score. I'm not making up a rule here. A rule that says you end at 6 runs doesn't mean you throw out all other rules. (Would you score the 6th run if a runner crossed the plate before BR was thrown out at 1st for the 3rd out? Of course not... this sitch is EXACTLY the same as far as enforcement goes).

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by youngump

By what rule? The league rule for ending an inning with six runs is almost certainly underspecified (is there a league rule that isn't?). So, I think by rule we have an inning that ends when the 6th run scores with no apparent nullifying play available meaning the only appeals I will accept are for a runner that has scored. And I'll defy you to show me in the rule book where it says that's not how you're supposed to handle it. (I realize you can make up your own rule where it wouldn't count, but you don't want to call it that way so why not make up my rule as long as we're making up rules either way.)

Read your rule book carefully. It clearly states that "no run, (meaning zero, zilch, zip, nada), can score" when the third out of the inning is made by the batter-runner before reaching first base.

In this case, the batter-runner was out prior to reaching first base, because she opted to leave the field of play instead. So, how many runs can score? Zero.