Rules question

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

So you are changing the play as offered in the OP? Nowhere was it stated that any runner entered the dugout without advancing other than the BR. That means the 8.7.U does not apply to the play offered.

Yes, he made up another play to try to illustrate his point. After re-reading, I'm thinking he's actually trying to invent a scenario where bases are loaded with no outs, R1 scores, BR dawdles a LONG time, so long that R2 and R3 advance to their bases and then head to and enter their dugouts AHEAD of BR.

[SamG]

This thread made me think...

Hypothetically...
Bases loaded, 2 outs.
DK3 AND passed ball.
BR is a new player and doesn't run to 1st until coaches and parents yell "RUN!"
R1 is an experienced player and advances home.
R1 crosses the plate before F2 can retrieve the ball and get back to the plate.
HOWEVER, BR, after a slow start, hasn't reached 1st yet. F2 throws to F3, F3 touches 1st.

If I'm understanding the posts here, R1 run still doesn't count. Is that correct?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by SamG

This thread made me think...

Hypothetically...
Bases loaded, 2 outs.
DK3 AND passed ball.
BR is a new player and doesn't run to 1st until coaches and parents yell "RUN!"
R1 is an experienced player and advances home.
R1 crosses the plate before F2 can retrieve the ball and get back to the plate.
HOWEVER, BR, after a slow start, hasn't reached 1st yet. F2 throws to F3, F3 touches 1st.

If I'm understanding the posts here, R1 run still doesn't count. Is that correct?

Not sure what you are thinking about to be honest ... of course it doesn't. Just like a ground ball where R1 crosses the plate before BR is out at first. No run... NO RUN can score on a play where the BR is put out before reaching 1st base for the third out.

[SamG]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Not sure what you are thinking about to be honest ... of course it doesn't. Just like a ground ball where R1 crosses the plate before BR is out at first. No run... NO RUN can score on a play where the BR is put out before reaching 1st base for the third out.

Here's where my brain went (probably incorrectly, but I figure it doesn't hurt to ask)... is there a VALID argument to saying there are TWO plays here? Play 1: passed ball, runner scores. Play 2: DK3.

Yes, I'm probably stretching, but my mind doesn't seem to be working right.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by SamG

Here's where my brain went (probably incorrectly, but I figure it doesn't hurt to ask)... is there a VALID argument to saying there are TWO plays here? Play 1: passed ball, runner scores. Play 2: DK3.

Yes, I'm probably stretching, but my mind doesn't seem to be working right.

Think of it this way. Until BR has touched first safely, there is no score. That should pretty much answer your question.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by SamG

Here's where my brain went (probably incorrectly, but I figure it doesn't hurt to ask)... is there a VALID argument to saying there are TWO plays here? Play 1: passed ball, runner scores. Play 2: DK3.

Yes, I'm probably stretching, but my mind doesn't seem to be working right.

This "play" means from the moment the ball is pitched to the moment the next ball is ready to be pitched.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Yes, he made up another play to try to illustrate his point. After re-reading, I'm thinking he's actually trying to invent a scenario where bases are loaded with no outs, R1 scores, BR dawdles a LONG time, so long that R2 and R3 advance to their bases and then head to and enter their dugouts AHEAD of BR.

Yeah, definitely changing the OP to bring in 8-7-U. The one above is only one of the variants I had mentioned. There are lots of variations on the theme. In all of them, we fix the specification of the league rule in some way to make it right. I don't see why we can't do the same in the OP.
To be consistent you'd have to be willing to make this call or explain some way in which it's different.
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[celebur]

Originally Posted by SamG

Here's where my brain went (probably incorrectly, but I figure it doesn't hurt to ask)... is there a VALID argument to saying there are TWO plays here? Play 1: passed ball, runner scores. Play 2: DK3.

Consider this one: R1 on 3B and R2 on 1B with 1 out, BR grounds into a 6-4-3 double play. Two distinct 'plays' were made, but the run does NOT score even if R1 touches home before out #2 (i.e. during the first play).

[celebur]

Originally Posted by youngump

To be consistent you'd have to be willing to make this call or explain some way in which it's different.

I disagree; to be consistent, we apply the official rules unless we're explicitly told otherwise by the house rules. There may well be some cases where there is no clear-cut way to handle situations that were not clarified by the house rules, but those rare, convoluted situations should not be taken as the norm for applying official rules.

[MD Longhorn]

League rules supercede the rulebook - they do not invalidate it except where it must.

I will admit that in your scenario that I summarized, I would have no run. Crucify me if you want. Maybe it's partially because that just doesn't happen here. Coaches don't yell out "5 runs!" and then everyone leaves the field. Once the play is over, the UMPIRE tells everyone there have been 5 runs. If a coach told his players to leave the field before the play is over, and somehow R2 andR3 exited the field after reaching their bases but BEFORE BR, and BR ends up being the 3rd out - no run. By rule.

[DeputyUICHousto]

I was always taught...and have always taught...that no run can score if the 3rd out of an inning is the result of a force out. Did something change?

[SamG]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

This "play" means from the moment the ball is pitched to the moment the next ball is ready to be pitched.

This is what I was having the brain fart moment on.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Coaches don't yell out "5 runs!" and then everyone leaves the field. Once the play is over, the UMPIRE tells everyone there have been 5 runs.

Where ????

[youngump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

League rules supercede the rulebook - they do not invalidate it except where it must.

I will admit that in your scenario that I summarized, I would have no run. Crucify me if you want. Maybe it's partially because that just doesn't happen here. Coaches don't yell out "5 runs!" and then everyone leaves the field. Once the play is over, the UMPIRE tells everyone there have been 5 runs. If a coach told his players to leave the field before the play is over, and somehow R2 andR3 exited the field after reaching their bases but BEFORE BR, and BR ends up being the 3rd out - no run. By rule.

Nah, no crucifixion from me. It's consistent which is all that can be asked for.
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[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Where ????

At the plate ... where else?