Foul or Out?

[MD Longhorn]

A player is in the box until they aren't. Foul.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

A player is in the box until they aren't. Foul.

Can you point to the rules reference for that?
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[AtlUmpSteve]

This situation has been discussed on this and other boards before. I don't believe anyone has ever been able to get a verified rules reference specific to this situation; so everyone answers based on what they have been told, or how they think it should be ruled.

I would reference every other game situation I can think of for equivalent rulings. If a batter contacts the ground with one foot completely out of the batter's box and contacts the ball with the bat, the batter is "out of the batter's box". If a batter-runner contacts the ground with one foot completely out of the running lane, the batter-runner is out of the running lane. If a pitcher contacts the ground with one foot completely out of the pitching circle, the pitcher is out of the circle with regard to the lookback rule. If a fielder steps with one foot completely into dead ball territory, the fielder is in dead ball territory.

Conversely, I cannot think of any situation where a player steps completely into an area with one foot where that player does not establish position in that new area. There may be one, but it isn't coming to me right now.

My conclusion is that stepping with one foot completely out of the batter's box is out of the batter's box; no matter what rule you reference. JMO.

[Tex]

Foul ball

[scottk_61]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

My conclusion is that stepping with one foot completely out of the batter's box is out of the batter's box; no matter what rule you reference. JMO.

I remember specifically being given this same statement (almost verbatim) at the Advanced School by Merle and Henry.
Of coursed that was a few years back but I don't imagine ASA has changed anything that would make this incorrect.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by scottk_61

I remember specifically being given this same statement (almost verbatim) at the Advanced School by Merle and Henry.
Of coursed that was a few years back but I don't imagine ASA has changed anything that would make this incorrect.

Cool. So two highly respected ASA umpires and clinicians have offered a concrete guideline for calling this play. Of course, the fact that they needed to define it themselves does kind of illustrate the fact that a definition is lacking in the rule book.

So if that's the way they want it called, why can't they include that in the rule book or umpire manual for the benefit of the other 30,000 ASA umpires that weren't fortunate enough to attend this one clinic!

[CecilOne]

I don't have time to search for the sources, but I remember this as only one foot has to be out in ASA, PONY, NCAA and some others; but both feet have to be out in NFHS and USSSA. Of course, this only applies if the ball is fair.

[MigoP]

Bret. You answered your own question in your last post. Rule 7.4 Art.a. NFHS. defines what is considered out of the batters box. Your first question answered. The next 2 rules you want us to read 7-2-1f. 8-2-6 define what the penalty's are for being out of box. It doesn't matter if the batter or runner is hit with their own or someone elses batted ball. If it doesn't pass an infielder your out. If it's your own batted ball and you have 1 foot outside the box when contacted by fair batted ball, your out.
The OBR rules I cited 6.03. 6.06a. Say exactly what I said they say. Everyone with a book feel free to read for yourselves. Which kind of implies you didn't take the time to read them. There is no leap in logic, as both books say the same thing. The only leap in logic is not reading the rules as written. They both have rules defining out of the box, and both have rules defining being hit with a batted ball. The only question is if it's your own batted ball, were your feet still in box or has 1 foot left box. Both feet in box,hits you,foul. 1 foot completely out of box and it hits you, out.
You don't have to attend a clinic for this one as they have incorporated these rules in the book already. Read, read and re-read,the answers usually there.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Cool. So two highly respected ASA umpires and clinicians have offered a concrete guideline for calling this play. Of course, the fact that they needed to define it themselves does kind of illustrate the fact that a definition is lacking in the rule book

I don't think it is that difficult to understand ASA's take on in/out of the box. To me, the demands of rule is clear, and as stated earlier, you are in the box until you are out of it.

Touching the ground outside of the line of the batter's box, visible or perceived, is out of the box. For a legal pitch to be thrown, the entire foot must be inside the lines. To legally hit the ball, a foot must not be completely outside of the lines. And since the foot must be on the ground to be out of the box, a foot off the ground is......well, just a foot off the ground. The rules also state that a batter may not leave the box then re-enter it and hit the ball. Does that mean if the batter jumps straight up in the air and then lands in the box they (thats for you, Tom) have left the box? Of course, not. Why? Because the batter's foot/feet did not touch completely outside of the lines.

Since the discussion is hitting the ball, this is the application to which the umpire (in ASA) should refer.