Fed Illegal Pitch Option

[DTQ_Blue]

I was reviewing Fed rules this week and came across the section discussing the offensive team's option after an illegal pitch. Unless I'm missing something, it seems to be saying that the option is only given if the batter hits the ball fair or foul, or becomes a baserunner. In all other circumstances, the penalty is enforced.

So if there is a runner on 1B and an IP is delivered while the runner is stealing, and the throw from F2 goes into the OF, and the runner goes to 3B, we enforce the penalty and put her back on 2B?

In the other rule sets I've looked at, the offensive team always gets the option, i.e., play or penalty.

Am I missing something in the Fed book?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Keep reviewing. I think you'll find that an IP with runners on is a balk - and a balk makes the ball dead immediately.

I think someone is on the wrong board.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue

I was reviewing Fed rules this week and came across the section discussing the offensive team's option after an illegal pitch. Unless I'm missing something, it seems to be saying that the option is only given if the batter hits the ball fair or foul, or becomes a baserunner. In all other circumstances, the penalty is enforced.

So if there is a runner on 1B and an IP is delivered while the runner is stealing, and the throw from F2 goes into the OF, and the runner goes to 3B, we enforce the penalty and put her back on 2B?

In the other rule sets I've looked at, the offensive team always gets the option, i.e., play or penalty.

Am I missing something in the Fed book?

We had this discussion a while back and though I don't have my rulebook in front of me, I'm pretty sure that there's a statement that makes the ball dead as soon as the catcher catches it so there can't be any subsequent action to sort out. Maybe search the archives.
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[MigoP]

Rule 6.2 Art. 2 ,penalty,exception.
This rule clearly defines defines the only time the offense has option of play or penalty is if the batter hits it fair or foul or becomes a baserunner. Any other illegal pitch you enforce penalty, no option.
In your scenario you don't have a batted ball or batter runner becoming baserunner, unless illegal pitch was ball 4, now batter runner becomes base runner. If ball 4 b/r awarded 1st on balls, offensive coach now has option, play or penalty. If not ball 4 you now do not have a batted ball or b/r becoming base runner. No option, penalty enforced.
An illegal pitch is a delayed dead ball. if you have none of the requirements above to allow options, the ball is then dead immediatly and penalty enforced,no option. It's the same rule as MLB OBR.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by youngump

We had this discussion a while back and though I don't have my rulebook in front of me, I'm pretty sure that there's a statement that makes the ball dead as soon as the catcher catches it so there can't be any subsequent action to sort out. Maybe search the archives.

The rule says the play is dead at the end of playing action. So if the catcher throws the ball to 2nd, playing action has not ended. It doesn't end on the catch.

Rule 6-1 Penalty (Arts. 2, 3, 4)

[HugoTafurst]

This very rule came up for at our HS Association meeting tonight.

It turned out that no one argued that there was no coach option.
The new twist (to me) was that many argued (reasonably) that since the ball became dead "at the end of playing action", a runner going from 1st to 3rd on a passed ball, should be allowed to stay there - and a ball awarded to the batter!
Conversely, if she was thrown out at 3rd, the out would stand and a ball would be awarded to the batter.

The thinking here is that similar to obstruction, she is awarded 2nd but whatever happens after that, happens..... And at the end of that playing action the ball is dead.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm Sounds similar to another sport - just can't remember the name

After much discussion, our rules interpreter was tasked with getting the FHSAA interpretation. Hopefully it will match NFHS.

[Tex]

Sometimes an illegal pitch is delivered to the batter. If the batter hits the ball (fair or foul), the play continues until the "end of playing action". Now the coach of the team at bat has the option of the resulting play or the penalty. The ball must be hit.

If the batter swings and misses the ball, the play is dead, all runners return, and the award is made.

If there is not any delivery of the ball to the batter, the play is dead and the award is made.

The runner stealing has no bearing on the play.

[Andy]

Tex - is this your interpretation or is it official in any way, either an NFHS State Rules interpreter or directly from NFHS? If so....is there documentation anywhere?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Tex

Sometimes an illegal pitch is delivered to the batter. If the batter hits the ball (fair or foul), the play continues until the "end of playing action". Now the coach of the team at bat has the option of the resulting play or the penalty. The ball must be hit.

If the batter swings and misses the ball, the play is dead, all runners return, and the award is made.

If there is not any delivery of the ball to the batter, the play is dead and the award is made.

The runner stealing has no bearing on the play.

I count 4 inaccuracies in this post... anyone have more?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I count 4 inaccuracies in this post... anyone have more?

I've only got three. And that's with counting the ball must be hit and if they hit it as two separate ones. If you don't want to spoil the surprise can you PM me.
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[MD Longhorn]

Sometimes an illegal pitch is delivered to the batter.

True.

If the batter hits the ball (fair or foul), the play continues until the "end of playing action".

False, it continues regardless of whether the batter hits the ball, in some cases.

Now the coach of the team at bat has the option of the resulting play or the penalty.

False.

The ball must be hit.

False.

If the batter swings and misses the ball, the play is dead, all runners return, and the award is made.

False, in one case.

If there is not any delivery of the ball to the batter, the play is dead and the award is made.

True!

The runner stealing has no bearing on the play.

I gave him this one. Technically not really true, but also not blatantly false. Just unimportant.

[youngump]

My count didn't include "now the coach has the option..." Once the ball is dead after a hit, then yes the coach has the option.
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MegaSquirtBB

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

My count didn't include "now the coach has the option..." Once the ball is dead after a hit, then yes the coach has the option.

You're probably right, as my perception of what was false there was the preceding clause - when the ball is hit... I guess I double-dinged him for the same error!

[Tex]

Andy, the answer to your question is yes.

This segment (Illegal Pitch Enforcement) was included with 2 slides in the NFHS powerpoint presentation that was made at both the Texas State Meeting and the Arkansas State Meeting. This segment explained the 6-1-(2, 3, & 4) penalty with the 6-2-2 penalty and exception. These are on pages 47 - 50 of the 2011 rule book or pages 47 - 49 of the 2010 rule book.

An Illegal Pitch Enforcement article was also included in the 2010 NFHS Softball Preseason Guide official publication on page 4 by Referee Enterprises.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Tex

Andy, the answer to your question is yes.

This segment (Illegal Pitch Enforcement) was included with 2 slides in the NFHS powerpoint presentation that was made at both the Texas State Meeting and the Arkansas State Meeting. This segment explained the 6-1-(2, 3, & 4) penalty with the 6-2-2 penalty and exception. These are on pages 47 - 50 of the 2011 rule book or pages 47 - 49 of the 2010 rule book.

An Illegal Pitch Enforcement article was also included in the 2010 NFHS Softball Preseason Guide official publication on page 4 by Referee Enterprises.

I have not seen the PP presentation you refer to, or know if it came from NFHS or was put together by the Texas and/or Arkansas state interpreters.

As far as the book goes, the specific issue of a runner stealing on the pitch, which is then called illegal is not addressed, hence the question on the OP.

Originally Posted by Tex

If the batter swings and misses the ball, the play is dead, all runners return, and the award is made.

This phrase you quoted is not to be found in the rulebook, either 2010 or 2011 editions, and is not addressed in the case book. the book states the ball is dead at the end of "playing action", yet that term is not defined.

Personally, in the play presented, I would allow the option of play or penalty if F2s throw was errant and the baserunner safely advanced to third.